ATHEISTS ONLY

@edgarblythe,

Only under newtonian conditions.

@hingehead,

Einstein didn't look like he was a user of conditioners. Did you see that hair?

@edgarblythe,

I can always tell who my relatives are in the photos from 1900 - 1940. They're all the ones that need conditioner - badly.

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@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

The Einstein quote is absolute nonsense.

Here are two actual quotes...with citations:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

“My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.”

Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.

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Conditioner is overrated. If Einstein had used conditioner, and still didn't comb his hair, he'd have looked the same.

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@Setanta,

Would have had more body. Whatever that means.

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@InfraBlue,

You're beating a dead horse.

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@Olivier5,

Who has horses these days?

Let's at least use a skill we should all have.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/83/98/eb/8398eb7e29618185c74a299e340384f0.jpg

j/k
mebbe

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http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/deadhorse.gif

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@Frank Apisa,

The final quote in that passage came from here...and obviously distorts what Einstein said about his stance:

Quote:

In 1945 Guy Raner, Jr. wrote a letter to Einstein, asking him if it was true that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism. Einstein replied, "I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. ... It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere—childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of this world—as far as we can grasp it, and that is all."

Brian, Denis (1996). Einstein: A Life. New York: J. Wiley, p. 344.Einstein's Letter of 2 July 1945; cf. Michael Shermer 13 December 2010

And since Einstein has been introduced into this discussion...here are a few other comments of his to consider.

Quote:

According to biographer Walter Isaacson, Einstein was more inclined to denigrate atheists than religious people. Einstein said in correspondence, "[T]he fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'—cannot hear the music of the spheres." Although he did not believe in a personal God, he indicated that he would never seek to combat such belief because "such a belief seems to me preferable to the lack of any transcendental outlook."

Isaacson, Walter (2007). "Einstein and Faith" Time 169 (April 5): 47.
Jammer, Max (2002). Einstein and Religion: physics and theology.Princeton: Princeton University Press, p 51 and p. 97

Quote:

According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

Clark, Ronald W. (1971). Einstein: The Life and Times. New York: World Publishing Company, p. 425.

(All of the above information was obtained from Wikipedia. )

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@hingehead,

Generally speaking, when a quote sounds too perfect to be true, it usually is, and one is well-advised to check it. The Einstein quote I remember from a collection of his letters is far closer to Frank's version than to yours. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Hitler quote was a little doctored, too, although I admit I have no evidence of that.

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Yeah IDK about adolf, but you don't have to read much of Einstein to see that he somewhat regularly referenced a higher power. Nevertheless, the general sentiment that he had no particular use for religion or gods as a means are also clear, as it was the meme above.

I really don't see the issue with the whole atheist/agnostic. I call myself atheist for simplicity more than anything, and to avoid worthless spiritual conversation

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@Thomas,

The Hitler quote is irrelevant, except as an example of Godwin's law.

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Einstein was not necessarily right about everything he said anyway. I never saw him billed as a theologian.

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@thack45,

thack45 wrote:

I really don't see the issue with the whole atheist/agnostic. I call myself atheist for simplicity more than anything, and to avoid worthless spiritual conversation

Good idea. If you tell a theist you're an agnostic, what they hear is that you are an atheist and don't want to admit it. Say the same thing to an atheist and they decide you're really a theist and don't want to admit it.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Einstein was not necessarily right about everything he said anyway. I never saw him billed as a theologian.

Whether he was right about everything or not is not the question that ought to be considered in what is being discussed right now.

Whether he was quoted correctly...IS.

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@roger,

Yeah.

Ya gotta be forceful about it...and keep at it.

Finally both sides get the message.

Most people get my take on my agnosticism:

I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods;
I do not know if there are no gods;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that they are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

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@roger,

It's actually that if I tell a theist I'm an agnostic, what they hear is that they've got a shot. BTW, I did the math, and the difference comes out to be about the same as divulging your weight pre or post dump.

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@thack45,

Made me laugh.

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@ossobuco,

I visited a cousin and her husband back in California about five years ago. We're the family survivors of a certain irish warfare mode that permeated our childhoods and then, years later, our own adulthoods (her sister vs. us); both of us don't want to go there with arguing. Actually, they're not irish as she was adopted (big improvement by her with brain genes, I must say).

She and I differ in two ways: she is still catholic, and conservative. I said I'm not religious (she already knew that) and that I'm liberal left with traces of conservative/libertarian. She said she was conservative, with a zone of liberal, which I know is true, she was in on the freedom riding thing years ago. We talked freely for that week, understanding who we were, no stress.

So, there's a phrase: I'm not religious.

1 Reply

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