Isn't this an invasion?

This rather lengthy excerpt from Camille Paglia's interview in Salon can be read in its entirety at their site:

What is your position on the increasingly likely U.S. invasion of Iraq?

Well, first of all, I'm on the record as being pro-military and in insisting that military matters and international affairs were neglected throughout the period of the Clinton administration -- which partly led to the present dilemma. The first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 should have been a wake-up call for everyone. However, I'm extremely upset about our rush to war at the present moment. If there truly were an authentic international coalition that had been carefully built, and if the administration had demonstrated sensitivity to the fragility of international relations, I'd be 100 percent in favor of an allied military expedition to go into Iraq and find and dispose of all weapons of mass destruction.

But most members of the current administration seem to have little sense that there's an enormous, complex world beyond our borders. The president himself has never traveled much in his life. They seem to think the universe consists of America and then everyone else -- small-potatoes people who can be steamrolled. And I'm absolutely appalled at the lack of acknowledgment of the cost to ordinary Iraqi citizens of any incursion by us, especially aerial bombardment. Most of the Iraqi armed forces are pathetically unprepared to respond to a military confrontation with us. These are mostly poor people who have a profession and a dignity within their country, and they're not necessarily totally behind Saddam Hussein's ambition to dominate his region. There's just no way that Saddam's threat is equal to that of Hitler leading up to World War II. Hitler had amassed an enormous military machine and was actively seeking world domination. We don't need to invade Iraq. Saddam can be bottled up with aggressive surveillance and pinpoint airstrikes on military installations.

As we speak, I have a terrible sense of foreboding, because last weekend a stunning omen occurred in this country. Anyone who thinks symbolically had to be shocked by the explosion of the Columbia shuttle, disintegrating in the air and strewing its parts and human remains over Texas -- the president's home state! So many times in antiquity, the emperors of Persia or other proud empires went to the oracles to ask for advice about going to war. Roman generals summoned soothsayers to read the entrails before a battle. If there was ever a sign for a president and his administration to rethink what they're doing, this was it. I mean, no sooner had Bush announced that the war was "weeks, not months" away and gone off for a peaceful weekend at Camp David than this catastrophe occurred in the skies over Texas.

From the point of view of the Muslim streets, surely it looks like the hand of Allah has intervened, as with the attack on the World Trade Center. No one in the Western world would have believed that those mighty towers could fall within an hour and a half -- two of the proudest constructions in American history. And neither would anyone have predicted this eerie coincidence -- that the president's own state would become the burial ground for the Columbia mission.

Including one small town where the debris fell called Palestine, Texas.

Yes, exactly! What weird irony with an Israeli astronaut onboard who had bombed Iraq 20 years ago. To me this dreadful accident is a graphic illustration of the limitations of modern technology -- of the smallest detail that can go wrong and end up thwarting the most fail-safe plan. So I think that history will look back on this as a key moment. Kings throughout history have been shaken by signals like this from beyond: Think twice about what you're doing. If a Roman general tripped on the threshold before a battle, he'd call it off.

PDiddie
That's a great piece. Thanks.

We're now on ORANGE ALERT.

Are the terrorists getting ready to attack?

Who will be attacked on American soil?

The more I see of a nation being wholly propagandized to accept this conflict as inevitable and a world being chivvied into war, the more I feel that the terrorists we really need to be afraid of occupy the White House and control the Congress.

blacksmithn, That's what I've been saying all along. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thinking. c.i.

More and more I am having this feeling of doom. That we are on the edge of something huge, but not necessarily good for us. A lot of us here have done some traveling and some intermingling, and have learned that there are all kinds of good people out there - all different, not all of them wanting to be like us, but good, ordinary people, just like the Iraqis. And I feel quite ceratin that they are not all standing there waiting to be liberated. The administration is of an age where the WWII movies of the Yanks coming in with candy bars, wlecomed as liberators, is clearly at work.

And, PD, even if one doesn't really believe in omens, this is just too coincidental. And that's a great article, although you can't get in to read it unless you belon to Salon.

The link below is to a full-page in the NYT today. I had passed over it, thinking it was just another one, when my husband asked if I had read it. Plainly written, carefully thought out.....

Bad feeling about all of this.






http://oriononline.org/pages/om/Berry.pdf

mama, The prints too small for me to read. Can you summarize for us? ;( c.i.

Sure - just give me a little time - because I'll have to take notes. I have acrobat reader. Maybe if you go to the oriononline.org home page there will be a way of bringing it up larger?

cicerone, your Acrobat Reader will let you size the text (which means you can enlarge it) if you look at the 'window' at the top (submenu) where you see a percentage. When I opened the document it said 78%, which means that it's a bit too large to fit entirely in your screen without it shrinking. Change that to 100% and you'll get something you can see a bit bigger, but you'll have to slide the bar at the bottom.

mama: you can read the Paglia interview (and the entire contents of Salon, which are superb) if you look at an advertisement. It's not obtrusive.

PDid, Thanks, will do. c.i.

Okay, I've skimmed it, and agree with its main thesis. "We" is being eliminated by this administration, but it seems with the approval of most Americans. At the international level, particularly the UN, this administration is hell-bent in destroying that too. What's next? c.i.

mama- Thought provoking and cogent article. Thanks.

I too have had this feeling of foreboding, perhaps helped along by the fact that my oldest just turned 18, i.e. draft age. I can't help but feel that the ensuing occupation of Iraq-- you know, after we "win"-- will usher in a renewed draft as the neverending war on terror pushes our military's manpower limits. This line of thought is generally pooh-poohed by conservatives, who bask in the warm thoughts that we'll be welcomed with open arms by all of Iraq and any ill-feeling engendered by the war in the Arab "street" will simply dissipate-- apparently cowed by the display of armed might in their midst. The naivete engendered in this line of thinking is simply breathtaking. That it's roots are found in the halls of power in this land is both tragic and scary.

Six Deadly Fears
The U.S. military is confident of victory in Iraq–but at what price?
It is much to long an article to post. However, for those who think the invasion of Iraq will be a walk in the sun you might look at the other possibilities.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030217/usnews/17six.htm

PD - Thanks - I never seem to think of the simpler ways of doing things. Thing is, I have a friend who emails all the stuff she finds interesting, so I usually don't bother.

Gee, Cicerone, and after I got you this link. This will take you to the page which has been edited for the site. so if you want, you can read the whole thing without squinting or moving the bar.

http://www.oriononline.org/pages/om/03-2om/berry.html



Will somebody please tell me what the definition of "victory" is over there? I asked my husband, who got facetious, but boiled it down to total elimination of all weapons of destruction there, now and forever, even if we have to nuke the country. Meanwhile, I just heard on CNN that France, instead of indicating that it might go along with the US because it doesn't want to be left out, has just hardened its position, and Russia has said wait for the inspectors, who are painting a rosier picture. But fearless leader has said it doesn't make any difference, it's too little, too late, and we will go in with our allies. meanwhile, Albania has signed up on our side.

If this weren't so terrible, with consequences I can't even think about, it could be a comic opera, with Bush wearing one of those hats.

Mamajuana -- Your mention of comic opera with hats touched off some thoughts... I see a kind of Gilbert & Sullivan-gone-berserk scenario with a lot of posing and costumes and triumphant songs and Rumsfeld, center stage singing "We Didn't Really Mean It Tra-La". Or possibly a W-Forever scenario in which, having nuked or poisoned or ray-gunned the bad guys we find ourselves with a permanent Bush presidency, a Bush hegemony, an America paved over with church parking lots and dominated by large-print thinking. Or will we wind up with a bumbled war depicted as victory followed by endless retaliation from sub-national groups from around the world?

What I really want is REWIND back to November 1, 2000, with teams of UN inspectors preparing to guard and inspect the voting process in all fifty states.

Well, if we had had the vote inspectors, we probably wouldn't have the mess we're in now.

Come to think of it, how come we're not demanding a recount of French, German, Belgian, Russian and other votes? We've got a Court we could send in for a final opinion.

mama, We'll only run into chad problems. c.i.

Here's another perspective for the people who wants this war. We just mourned the loss of seven astronauts. Who will mourn the loss of hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent Iraqi's when this country attacks Iraq? Is the life of one American more worthy than the life of one Iraqi? c.i.

c.i

This may seem heartless, but yes to me it is.

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