Bernie's In

@revelette2,

Quote:

I am not talking about Hillary but Sanders. I am sure he has worked out compromises on gun laws and such things. However, his health care plan besides being risky and costly has no chance of passing with the present congress. I don't know what his plan is for big businesses and wall street. He just, to me, doesn't show a side to him that is willing to bend. I could be wrong. I am sure you will say I am. Wink

You are wrong. Bernie Sanders has worked out compromises on things like

- Corporate accountability including the Victims Justice act of 1995
- Making College more affordable including amendments linking grants to colleges with reduced tuitions.
- Appropriating money for free health clinics in 2001.
- Adding language to a trade bill to stop importation from countries using child labor in 2001.
- IRS pension reform including amendments to Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 to address age discrimination in pensions.
- Support for Veterans health care and education benefits
- Added language to the bank bailout bill in 2009.

And the list goes on.

Now Revelette,

Can you give me a single example of Hillary reaching across the aisle to work on important legislation?

I didn't think so.

1 Reply

Robert Reich
26 mins · Richmond, CA ·
Yesterday in New Hampshire, Bill Clinton attacked Bernie Sanders’s proposal for a single-payer health plan as "politically infeasible" and a “recipe for gridlock.” Bill Clinton is correct -- if we accept the current political status quo. Every progressive idea is a recipe for gridlock as long as big corporations, Wall Street, and the wealthy continue to dominate our political system. If you assume Washington is not changeable and that the vicious cycle of wealth and power dominating American politics and economics is unalterable, Hillary will make a first-class president for the system we now have. But if you believe Washington must be changed and that system can be altered for the benefit of the many and not the few, Bernie’s leadership and ideas are especially relevant because he's heading up a political movemen

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

It's interesting to note that it was Bill Clinton who lifted Reich out of academic obscurity to make him Secretary of Labor in his administration. I've met him on several occasions, the first time while he was in government and waqs "inspecting" a government contracted industrial operation I was then directing.

He is an obnoxious little twit, very self-absorbed and critical of others: the archtype of the overcompensating short guy.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

One thing to keep in mind about Bernie's healthcare ideas is that Republicans really DO want a single payer healthcare system. Also, it would not be "Obamacare". If it turns out to not be an actual single payer system, but just another scheme where the insurance industry makes out like gluttonous rats, then I doubt it would get any support.

I bet people read it this time though before they try to vote on it because that is what Bernie would want them to do.

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

Doesn't make his writing less meaningful, to me.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Robert Reich
26 mins · Richmond, CA ·
Yesterday in New Hampshire, Bill Clinton attacked Bernie Sanders’s proposal for a single-payer health plan as "politically infeasible" and a “recipe for gridlock.” Bill Clinton is correct -- if we accept the current political status quo. Every progressive idea is a recipe for gridlock as long as big corporations, Wall Street, and the wealthy continue to dominate our political system. If you assume Washington is not changeable and that the vicious cycle of wealth and power dominating American politics and economics is unalterable, Hillary will make a first-class president for the system we now have. But if you believe Washington must be changed and that system can be altered for the benefit of the many and not the few, Bernie’s leadership and ideas are especially relevant because he's heading up a political movement.

The problem here is that the self-appointed architects of redesigned top down systems generally don't get it right, as was the case with the esteemed Prof. Johnathan Gruber who so blithely dismissed Americans as stupid and not knowing what was really good for them. He didn't get either his arithmetic or his words right in the convoluted and self-contradictory law he drafted. Most of the insurance exchanges created under the law have since gone bankrupt, and without huge additional Federal subsidies the system will soon collapse under its own dead weight. The administrative cost of running a medical practice has risen even further; doctors are quitting the profession; and the "progressives" are telling us we need more of the same poison as a remedy.

Free markets are exceedingly complex self-organized things representing the aggregation of free choices made by all the participants. Such complex systems cannot be matched by mere bureaucratic processes, no matter how much money and political power & authority is put into them.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

So says Ayn Rand. Screw that free market stuff that leads us back into the 19th century. Well regulated capitalism is what works. That and a safety net for the working people.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Well, then our positions aren't that far apart. Certainly the 19th century demonstrated to us that unrestrained capitalism can allow secret trusts and monopolies that can frustrate many of the benefits the system offers and do real harm. In turn the unlamented 20th century amply demonstrated that socialism and authoritarian governmenmts of any kind yield only tyranny and poverty. And here we are....

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Bernie Sanders has been congress longer than Hillary was in the Senate, so of course there are a lot bills he worked on. Hillary has her share as well, you will find it on candidates and the issues. I do not know if those bills you listed were bill worked out with bi-partisan effort or not. It is really beside the point. The republicans we have today are extreme and any democrat would be hard pressed to work with them. My point is that I am not sure Bernie Sanders will work too much with a party he decries as being in league with big money too, which would be the democrats in congress for the most part with the exception of maybe Elizabeth Warren.

Hillary Clinton on the Issues

Bernie Sanders on the Issues

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Hillary Clinton sponsored exactly three bills that became law.

- S.3145, designated a portion of U.S. Route 20A, located in Orchard Park, N.Y., as the “Timothy J. Russert Highway,” after the former “Meet the Press” host.

- S. 3613, renamed the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 2951 New York Highway 43 in Averill Park, New York, as the “Major George Quamo Post Office Building.”

- S. 1241 made the brick house of 19th century female union leader Kate Mullany a national historic site.

I see plenty of evidence that Bernie Sanders was willing to work with people of all political stripes to pass important legislation. I see no evidence of Hillary Clinton doing the same thing.

If you have any evidence of Hillary Clinton being able to work with people outside of her immediate political circle to get things done, I would love to see it.

3 Replies

I will say that although I don't agree with any of Bernie Sanders political proposals, I do find him to be an agreeable, amiable person. Perhaps it's the still detectable Brooklyn accent, his very direct and plain manner of speaking or the faint trace of irony I sometimes detect in his delivery ... or something like that. Compared to many other politicians he is indeed a likeable guy.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

If you have any evidence of Hillary Clinton being able to work with people outside of her immediate political circle to get things done, I would love to see it.

She worked with people overseas when she was Secretary of State, other than that, she worked with people in the senate, you know in the immediate political circle who are voted in to get things done.

Tell me why republicans will work with Sanders when they didn't for Obama when Sanders policies he wants enacted are way more socialist than anything Obama has advocated for? Obamacare is the result of republican input, we ended up compromising with republicans and they still were not happy because they didn't want the government involved in health care at all. Why are they are going to now adopt it? If they would, Hillary would go for it as well.

Quote:

Yet the single-payer system had already been compromised away when the final 2009-10 healthcare negotiations began. The deep opposition of some Americans to expanding government presented an insurmountable obstacle to adopting this rational, efficient and humane approach to insuring the health of the people of the nation. Recognizing this political reality, many Democrats compromised, even those who considered the single-payer approach to be by far the best policy.

Instead of pushing for single payer, they rallied around another approach: the "public option." The public option would have preserved the current employer-based system of private health insurance coverage while providing a government-run healthcare insurance alternative as well as a safety net for the uninsured. Importantly, it would have also injected much-needed competition into an environment where private insurance plans are increasingly consolidated.

Still, this compromise of abandoning a single-payer system for a public option was not enough for Republicans and some conservative Democrats. Even though a public option was included in both the House and Senate versions of healthcare reform, politics prevailed and yet another huge concession was made. Instead of a single-payer system or even a public option for those who chose it, Democrats went along with the Obama compromise of adopting RomneyCare, the old Republican plan signed into law by Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts.

This plan builds on the existing system of insurers and insurance plans and was explicitly designed to mimic previous Republican plans in order to assure passage in Congress. Notably, it includes the "individual mandate," which 19 Republicans first proposed in 1993 as a legislative alternative to President Clinton's healthcare reform bill. Today, Republicans attack the individual mandate as unconstitutional.

For many Democrats, these compromises have been hard to swallow. Frustration still lingers among liberals over the abandonment of the single-payer system. In surveys on healthcare, 11% of Americans oppose the administration's health plan because it does not go far enough. Among Democratic activists, that percentage is far higher.

The Democratic base has reason on its side in favoring a single-payer system. But in politics, reason is often not enough. When others feel strongly on the other side, the best thing for the nation is often compromise. Hence, the Democratic Party reluctantly adopted RomneyCare, a.k.a. Obamacare, to get Republican approval.

source

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

she worked with people in the senate, you know in the immediate political circle who are voted in to get things done.

This is where we disagree. Can you give me an example, a single example would suffice, where she worked with Republicans in Congress to get something important done? You can give any example from her time in Congress or her time as Secretary of State. It seems to me she has had a very difficult time working with Republicans in either case.

I accept your point that she has worked with people overseas. But that is not what we are talking about.

I am only making this point because of the earlier post where you claimed that Bernie would have trouble working with Congress.

The truth is that Bernie has worked with Republicans in Congress to make progress on issues he cares about, from veterans affairs to corporate accountability to funding health clinics. I have yet to see any examples where Hillary has worked with Republicans.

I would love it if you could provide one.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

They dismantled the social parts of the government as much as they could get away with, beginning with Reagan and the firing of the air traffic strikers. When this began, the raveling of a working government for the people was inevitable, with big money moving in to fill the void. We became the richest, most powerful nation in history with our regulations and taxes and social programs. What we have now is the throwing out the baby with the bathwater approach to social programs and unfettered greed by the big money people. There has to be a correction and an addition of a healthcare system for all that really works. I support Obamacare to a degree, but the insurance companies are already at work like a bunch of weevils and getting richer off of it.

1 Reply

I should have written that more carefully. Oh well.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

I would love it if you could provide one.

Quote:

Sponsor:
Sen. Clinton, Hillary Rodham [D-NY] (Introduced 01/30/2003)

Committees:
Senate - Veterans' Affairs

Latest Action:
07/10/2003 Committee on Veterans' Affairs. Hearings held. (All Actions)

S.249 - A bill to amend title 38, United States Code, to provide that remarriage of the surviving spouse of a deceased veteran after age 55 shall not result in termination of dependency and indemnity compensation otherwise payable to that surviving spouse.

Cosponsor

Date Cosponsored

Sen. Hutchison, Kay Bailey [R-TX]* 01/30/2003
Sen. Lieberman, Joseph I. [D-CT] 03/31/2003
Sen. Murray, Patty [D-WA] 06/18/2003
Sen. Kerry, John F. [D-MA] 07/10/2003
Sen. Rockefeller, John D., IV [D-WV] 07/10/2003
Sen. Landrieu, Mary L. [D-LA] 07/22/2003
Sen. Reid, Harry [D-NV] 07/24/2003
Sen. Lincoln, Blanche L. [D-AR] 09/03/2003
Sen. Sessions, Jeff [R-AL] 10/14/2003
Sen. Durbin, Richard [D-IL] 11/04/2003

source

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Max wrote:

Can you give me an example, a single example would suffice, where she worked with Republicans in Congress to get something important done?

Let's try again Revelette. The question is whether Hillary Clinton is able to work together with Republicans to successfully get something through Congress. I have already provided several examples where Bernie Sanders has done just that.

You have found a bill that died in committee that had a couple of Republican co-sponsors. That is a far cry from working with Republicans to successfully pass legislation.

Hillary Clinton has been one of the most divisive figures in politics since before she was elected to the Senate.

3 Replies

@maxdancona,

Here's a good article on the 2015 gridlock in congress: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-break-in-the-congressional-gridlock/2015/04/17/3aea1e14-e532-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

You are past being silly. I am not going to go through each bill she worked on to see if it passed. The point is that republicans went in partnership with her to try and get things done which goes contrary to your point.

During Clinton’s time in the Senate, nearly every Republican Senator she served with cosponsored at least one piece of her legislation. In total, 57 colleagues cosponsored at least one piece while only 8 did not. Here's who did not: Senators Kyl (AZ), Hutchinson (AR), Thurmond (SC), Frist, Thompson (TN), Gramm, Thomas (WY), Coburn.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

You are past being silly. I am not going to go through each bill she worked on to see if it passed.

No need for you to do this. I have already done the work for you.

http://able2know.org/topic/275712-98#post-6111734

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know