Bernie's In

@snood,

You think saying he was tired of hearing about the emails during the debate is synonymous with calling for an end to the investigation? They were the same thing? So that now saying that he did not mean or say the investigation should end is a lie?

Is this is what you're saying?

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@Lash,

I know I'm tired of it. Those two issues are dead.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

If I thought Bernie acted with political expedience in this case, I'd have no problem admitting it. It wouldn't have been that bad of a thing to do, but very basic logic tells us that saying he's tired of hearing about it in the press and from the press as he tries to conduct a presidential campaign in no way means he thinks the investigation should be called off.

The two facts aren't mutually exclusive. No amount of desperate wrangling will change that fact.

I can't figure out which one you Bernie detractors think was wrong - when he said he was tired of hearing about Hillary's damn emails or when he said he wasn't calling for an end to the investigation...?

LOL. (Comparing Prince Bernie to that truly black-hearted lying sack of bribe money Hillary.)

Lots of things you cannot figure out, Lash...even when they are carefully explained to you.

I AM NOT A BERNIE SANDERS DETRACTOR.

I love the guy...he says all the things I want said...and his policies are more in line with what I want than anyone else in the race.

I've repeated that time and again, Lash. You ought really to get your head out of wherever you have it most of the time so you can read what is written.

Not sure what else you were saying, but considering the quality of what I did read...no big loss.

(Oh, because I love him is no reason to revere him...or claim he cannot make mistakes or work up the nonsense you do. I just do not think he can win this election...and a Dem win is critical.

And I do not care what he or you think about Hillary Clinton.)

K?

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@Lash,

I think what Frank is saying and what I am saying is only unclear when viewed through your "perfect bernie" filter, Lash. It ain't complicated. All you have to do is admit the man's human with human motives like ambition. Then maybe you could allow him to be a real live person whose every freaking action isn't out of a desire to serve or save others. Sometimes he does **** in this campaign just because he WANTS SOMETHING FOR BERNIE, not for the good of all mankind. Why is that so hard?

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

Just for the record, pointing out that Bernie gets streaks in his shorts or makes political moves or does other things that simply show him not to be a deity doesn't make me a "Bernie detractor". That accusation's irrational bordering on deranged.

I think Bernie is an exceptional man, a true people's advocate...
and a human politician who does human politician ****.

Amen, Snood.

There was nothing wrong with Sanders making a political move. It is what politicians do...what they must do...and what I want to see them do at times.

1 Reply

@snood,

You and I seem to fall out frequently because of a word.

I disagree with your use of expedience, and now you seem to take offense at my use of detractor.

A detractor is a person who criticizes. A Bernie detractor is someone who criticizes Bernie. Someone who says Bernie lied is criticizing Bernie.

To say that calling a Bernie detractor a Bernie detractor is deranged...is deranged.

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@snood,

Because it's not based on fact.

I promise you when he does something wrong, I'll acknowledge it.

He hasn't yet.

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@Frank Apisa,

You fit with Hillary perfectly.

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I know I'm tired of it. Those two issues are dead.

Only half the e-mails have been dumped. We shall see what the other half holds. Also yet to be seen is who if anyone hacked her server. If the Chinese or the Russians turn up with copies that will be a problem, though one expects that they will not tell us unless Hillary wins the chair.

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@snood,

Quote:

Every politician does this - it's what makes them politicians and not patron saints.

Not that Bernie has over his long life ever demonstrated much talent for politics. Now maybe he has hidden some somewhere, bit I am not planning on seeing it.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Just for the record, pointing out that Bernie gets streaks in his shorts or makes political moves or does other things that simply show him not to be a deity doesn't make me a "Bernie detractor". That accusation's irrational bordering on deranged.

I think Bernie is an exceptional man, a true people's advocate...
and a human politician who does human politician ****.

Just for the record before now Bernie has been fine with only getting his words into the record. Actually getting things done has been less of a concern, as evidenced by his demonstrated lack of caring that he generally has not gotten anything done. This guy is a talker not a doer.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Because it's not based on fact.

I promise you when he does something wrong, I'll acknowledge it.

He hasn't yet.

See, that's your skew. Nobody's even saying it's wrong. It's politics. Bernie does politics - wow. That's what you're trying to deny. How sensible is that?

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@snood,

Snood, you're nitpicking now, and it's below you. Bernie is not half the consumate politician that Hillary is. He's even pretty clumsy and clueless, as far as petty politics go. Defending Hillary during the debate is one example. A true politician would have used the issue to tar an opoonent. He didn't.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Snood, you're nitpicking now, and it's below you. Bernie is not half the consumate politician that Hillary is. He's even pretty clumsy and clueless, as far as petty politics go. Defending Hillary during the debate is one example. A true politician would have used the issue to tar an opoonent. He didn't.

So, he does nothing strictly for political gain?

1 Reply

@snood,

How would I know? I can't read his mind, and neither can you. What I can tell is that he is far less of a political asshole than his opponents. Compare his attitude to Hillary with her attitude to Obama last time around. She behave as a total bitch if I recall.

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@snood,

I'm obviously not the right person to have this conversation with because I disagree with the premise that has evolved since the beginning of this conversation.

We began talking about political expedience. Expediency is defined as the quality of being convenient and practical despite possibly being improper or immoral. Move yourself closer to your goal and too bad if it's right or wrong - I don't care who gets hurt in the process.

I say this defines HRC's behavior - and I say I haven't seen one piece of evidence that Bernie has done this.

Don't just take my word for it. http://observer.com/2015/09/hillary-clinton-penchant-for-expediency-leading-to-repeat-of-2008-downfall/

Since we made our competing statements, you have been moving the goalposts so much that I don't think we're having the same conversation.

Political expedience - lying about changing views, mincing words to be practically meaningless to hide your true opinion, lying about a war on Wall Street when they own you... these are examples of political expedience.

Responding to voters - following what you've said and believed and voted and worked for your entire political career, but being more vocal about it due to an public outcry, like BLM, isn't in the universe with expediency. It is a straight up, legitimate response to a group he's been devoted to forever.

I will not call it what it isn't.

I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge the difference in political expediency and legitimate behavior. Do you really not see a difference?

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Quote:

Sanders also found a way to reconcile his discomfort in delivering hard-hitting, personal attacks with the reality that attacking Hillary Clinton is the only way he is going to win the nomination. He pulled off the classic political trick of stating that he wouldn’t attack someone… and then doing it anyway.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/11/06/bernie_sanders_was_excellent_at_the_msbnc_forum.html

Impressive.

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@Olivier5,

Or maybe he figured it would be a political liability piling on Hillery with the Republicans?

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@hawkeye10,

What would you say is the difference in "attacking " a candidate & drawing legitimate, truthful differences in the two of you? When I think "attack," I think of Fiorinas face, Carsons pyramids, Hillarys scandals,... Things that can hurt a candidate but aren't directly related to the job they're applying for.

What Bernie said about Clinton - her indebtedness to Wall Street - isn't some left field attack, but an important reason she can't be counted on to handle the problem. She's part of the problem. Slate may want to characterize it as an attack, but that's incorrect. I'm beginning to think people have no concept about what's legitimate campaigning anymore. Telling the truth about who funds her campaign is an attack?

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Another article saying it wasn't an attack.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/south-carolina-msnbc-democratic-presidential-forum-215620
I guess attack and legitimate comparison is a muddy area.

1 Reply

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