Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 04:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
They've built a network of cronies, and have bridges to money all over the world - yes. But their stupid voter base is dying off.

The millennials see them for what they are - and minorities are also speaking to being used and excused finally. Unless the Clintons can pay for graft at the polls, their heyday is passing. Obama couldn't have beaten HRC if it weren't true.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 04:31 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
They've built a network of cronies, and have bridges to money all over the world - yes. But their stupid voter base is dying off.


I dont think that is it, I think familiarity breeds contempt. THe Clintons never evolve, they keep playing the same game over and over again. I think we are tired of it, we know that it has not worked to make America a better place, we know that it can not work to make America a better place, so why not vote for Sanders. He has the virtue of being something different. Sort of like Trump. When what you have been doing does not work then do something else, anything else.

EDIT: I also think that one of Hillary's major miscalculations is that she thinks that if she gets the right marketing and the right packaging then she makes the sale. What she does not understand is that we have had the product before, we know the product very well, and it is not what we want now. I think she is off spinning her wheels on something that does not matter because she does not understand what the consumer wants, and even if she did that is not what she is, which we all know. THe elite was going crazy last week on how good the Clinton packaging was, how great clinton was, which proves that they as well dont get it.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 05:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

Bernie will not get the nomination. The Dems are not going to commit political suicide to suit the extremists in the party.


Geez Frank. It is a neat trick when anyone who stands up to Wall Street is called an extremist.

This is is why we can't have nice political candidates.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2015 06:51 pm
@maxdancona,
Well, I don't use that term to describe Bernie, but for those that do, it isn't just his stand against Wall St that worries 'em..
It's things like federally administered universal healthcare and free college for all that worries 'em...
I wouldn't call him extremist, but the argument could be made that he's radical - not that that's a bad thing...
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2015 06:14 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Reading Yglesias’s piece, however, one comes away with the impression that there are only two branches of the federal government — the president and Congress. Granted, these are the only two elected branches, but the winner of 2016’s presidential election is likely to play an unusually large role in shaping the membership of the Supreme Court. And the Democratic Party’s best road to relevance in highly gerrymandered states begins with changing the makeup of the nation’s highest Court.

Placing Blame Where It Is Due

As Yglesias notes, many of the Republican Party’s structural advantages in state legislative and U.S. House races stem from gerrymandering — “GOP control of most state legislatures lets Republicans draw boundaries in a way that is even more GOP-friendly than the natural population distribution would suggest.” He also names several policies pushed by Republican state lawmakers that further entrench GOP control. “New curbs on voting rights, to further tilt the electorate in a richer, whiter, older direction” help shift the electorate away from the Democratic Party and towards Republicans. Meanwhile, “union-hostile ‘right to work’ laws” starve a backbone of the Democratic Party’s infrastructure of the funding and members it needs to function.

If you don’t like gerrymandering, you should blame the Supreme Court. In the 2004 case Vieth v. Jubelirer, four conservative justices said that they would forbid federal courts from hearing challenges to partisan gerrymanders, and Justice Anthony Kennedy’s concurring opinion was only slightly less dismissive of these lawsuits. The result is that state lawmakers have been free to draw maps that entrench their party and lock out the other party, even though such maps violate voters’ First Amendment rights.

The Supreme Court is also complicit in the wave of “curbs on voting rights” that Yglesias notes in his piece. In a party-line vote, a 5-4 Supreme Court gutted a key provision of the Voting Rights Act, enabling many voter ID laws, gerrymandered maps and other legislation that would have otherwise been blocked to go into effect. Similarly, the Court in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board effectively greenlighted Voter ID laws — one of the most common examples of state laws that exclude voters likely to support Democrats. The Court’s plurality opinion cited concerns about in-person voter fraud to justify this outcome, even though the opinion could only find one example of such fraud occurring in the United States within the preceding 140 years!

With respect to unions, the Roberts Court could make Scott Walker look like Eugene Debs. Sure, Republican state lawmakers can enact a so-called “right to work” law in a single state. Later this term, however, the Court will hear Friedrichs v. California Teachers Association, a case that asks the justices to impose a right to work regime on every single public sector union in the country. In 2014, nearly half of all unionized workers were in the public sector, so Friedrichs could deal a sharper blow to unions than any state’s government could deal on its own.

When the next president takes office, conservative Justices Kennedy and Antonin Scalia will both be 80 years old. If a Democratic president replaces them with, say, Justices Nina Pillard and Sri Srinivasan, then it is likely that partisan gerrymandering will be struck down, Crawford will be overruled and the Voting Rights Act will be reinstated. The newly constituted bench would also be able to undo any judicial attacks on unionized workers.

This matters a great deal because, unless the Supreme Court intervenes, taking back the House and many state legislatures is a nearly impossible task for Democrats. In 2012, Democratic House candidates received nearly 1.4 million more votes than Republican candidates, yet Republicans wound up with a solid majority in the House largely due to favorable district lines. Indeed, Democrats would have needed to win the 2012 House elections by an estimated 7.25 percentage points to take back the House. That’s more than the GOP margin of victory in the 2010 wave election (6.6 percent) and only slightly less than the Democratic margin of victory in the 2006 wave (7.9 percent).

Similarly, many states are extraordinarily gerrymandered at the state legislative level. Virginia, for example, has a Democratic governor, yet Republicans enjoy a 67-32 supermajority in the state’s House of Delegates. Similarly, Pennsylvania also has a Democratic governor, but Republicans enjoy a 120-83 majority in the state house and a 30-20 majority in the state senate.

Simply put, there are no tactics in these states that are likely to achieve “down-ballot electoral success” for Democrats — at least if future elections are conducted under the current, skewed rules. The party’s only hope is to hold onto the White House long enough to flip the Supreme Court, then file a lawsuit seeking to restore fairness to state and U.S. House elections.

The Democratic Nightmare

On the other hand, if a Republican president replaces Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer — who will be 83 and 78, respectively, when the next president is sworn in — the newly constituted bench could leave Democrats pining for the days when their only challenges were rigged districts, voter suppression laws and hollowed-out unions. At the very least, an even more conservative Supreme Court would entrench decisions like Vieth, Crawford and Friedrichs, but it is likely that it would do much, much more.

To give an idea of just how bad things could get, the 2015 Supreme Court case King v. Burwell asked the justices to gut the Affordable Care Act based on the unique legal argument that much of the law’s text does not count. This proved a bridge too far for two of the Court’s Republicans, Kennedy and Chief Justice Roberts, who joined the Court’s four Democrats in an opinion reminding conservative lawyers that “in a democracy, the power to make the law rests with those chosen by the people” and not with five members of the Supreme Court. Notably, however, three of the Court’s Republicans — Justices Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito — embraced the argument that the law most reviled by Republicans must be read to destroy itself.

King is a double warning for Democrats. It is a sign that the Court’s right flank — and the sort of judges who are likely to join that right flank in a Republican administration — are willing to sign their names to legal arguments that take them far afield from well-established legal principles. It’s also a warning that Democrats probably will not be able to anticipate the many unique and creative ways that a Court led by extraordinarily conservative justices like Thomas or Alito will be willing to transform the law.

In the worst case scenario for Democrats — a scenario that many influential conservative thinkers are clamoring for — the Supreme Court’s new majority could revive something similar to the Lochner Era, a period in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century when the justices fabricated extra-constitutional legal doctrines to strike down legislation such as child labor laws and the minimum wage. If that happens, it won’t matter if Democrats overcome voter suppression laws, gerrymandering, crippled unions and whatever other obstacles Republicans on and off the Supreme Court dream up to entrench their own power. Any significant legislation signed by a Democratic president over Republican objections is likely to be struck down in the same way Republicans asked the Supreme Court to strike down the Affordable Care Act.

Because Supreme Court justices serve for life, moreover, Democrats will have no good options if a Republican president fills the Court with five Alitos. When President Franklin Roosevelt faced a rogue Supreme Court that frequently disregarded the Constitution in service of conservative ends, he proposed a “court-packing” plan that would have added several new justices and diluted the votes of the Court’s conservative wing. This proposal, however, was extraordinarily unpopular, despite the fact that Roosevelt proposed it shortly after winning a landslide election and the fact that the Court had, at that point, engaged in rogue behavior for many decades. The likelihood that a Democrat elected in 2020 would be able to achieve what Roosevelt could not, especially in light of the fact that gerrymandering would continue to give Republicans an advantage in U.S. House elections, is slim to none.

Nor is a constitutional amendment a viable solution. As I explain in my book, Injustices: The Supreme Court’s History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted the Constitution is nearly impossible to amend. Amendments require 3/4s approval from state legislatures, a fact that typically prevents amendments from being enacted that are opposed by any major political faction within the United States. And, again, because gerrymandering, voter suppression laws and other factors give Republicans an advantage in state legislative races, it would be particularly difficult for a Democratic president to garner the state legislative support necessary to amend the Constitution.

The Democratic Party, in other words, is facing an apocalypse if the Supreme Court moves further to the right, and the only way for them to stop this apocalypse is to hold on to the White House.


source

A grim reminder of what is at stake this year, never more important for democrats to win the white house. No wonder there is such an all out war on Hillary as the most current viable democrat candidate (started with the Benghazi Panel before the election cycle really began and then just escalated) and no wonder Biden was willing to step in if it looked like Hillary was going to tank. Some of the support from republicans for Bernie Sanders just might not be support for Bernie Sanders.


oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2015 11:36 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
The Democratic Nightmare
On the other hand, if a Republican president replaces Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer — who will be 83 and 78, respectively, when the next president is sworn in — the newly constituted bench could leave Democrats pining for the days when their only challenges were rigged districts, voter suppression laws and hollowed-out unions. At the very least, an even more conservative Supreme Court would entrench decisions like Vieth, Crawford and Friedrichs, but it is likely that it would do much, much more.

Actually the idea is that the coming Republican president will replace Ginsberg, Breyer, and Kennedy with solid conservative justices.


Quote:
The Democratic Party, in other words, is facing an apocalypse if the Supreme Court moves further to the right, and the only way for them to stop this apocalypse is to hold on to the White House.

Yep!

And the 2013 gun control debacle has guaranteed a Republican victory in 2016.

Never before has an attempt to destroy America's freedom rebounded so severely on the perpetrators.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2015 06:38 pm
The "Biden is in" rumors may have peaked, without any action. I find it difficult to estimate exactly where Biden stands on the question of seeking the nomination. It does appear very likely that he's ready in the event that something beaks badly for Hillary in either the Benghazi hearings of the FBI investigations. The stakes are very high and for the Democrats that looks like a risk not worth taking without some option.

Bernie Sanders has gotten more public attention in the last few months than in all his years as a backbencher in the Senate. I believe both he and all the Democrat leadership were surprised by the enthusiastic public reaction - in some quarters- to his candidacy and his campaign rhetoric. He would be less than human if he didn't at some level contemplate a serious run for the office, but in the recent debate, though he manfully stuck to his campaign rhetoric and positions, he made no effort to really differentiate himself from the crowned queen or to directly persuade voters to choose himself over her ... all while Hillary looked on approvingly. I think that says a lot about their real intentions.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2015 07:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
all while Hillary looked on approvingly. I think that says a lot about their real intentions.

Are you talking about at the end where he played the knight elect to her queen act?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 04:57 am
I think George is right about the Biden "peak." I read somewhere (!!!) (gotta try to find it) that the Biden camp said on the day this surge in Biden expectation hit the social media that Biden "will not be bullied" by the Clinton camp and will make his decision in his own timing.

Looks like Camp Hillary "leaked" an imminent Biden decision to try to force him to choose.

That was easy enough. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-will-not-be-bullied-by-clinton-campaign-into-deciding-on-run/

btw, do you see how easy it was for HRC to get a multitude of "news outlets" to create a furor over non-news to benefit her campaign???
snood
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 07:18 am
@Lash,
Lash you can see nothing positive about Hillary - if you do, I've never seen you say so. When you talk about Hillary, you sound like the absolute most rabid Obama derangement sufferer talking about the Kenyan Socialist Muslim. All margin of doubt about anything she may have done, with or without any evidence - you don't give that benefit of doubt to her. This is an obvious blind spot in your reasoning - there is good in even the worst, and bad in even the best human. It seems you believe and try to propagate every and any bad thing that's been rumored, circulated, mentioned about Hillary Clinton. It limits how seriously I can take your judgement about everything else - there is just no reason that these discussions have to rise to (or at least stay on - I have my issues with Dick Cheney) the level of abject hatred of a freaking politician.

It's going to be a long year anyway leading up to the election, and hard decisions will be made by people of good conscience no matter what else happens. Just answer me this once more, so I'm clear. Will you withhold your vote from Hillary even if DONALD TRUMP will be president?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 07:24 am
@snood,
Quote:
This is an obvious blind spot in your reasoning - there is good in even the worst, and bad in even the best human. It seems you believe and try to propagate every and any bad thing that's been rumored, circulated, mentioned about Hillary Clinton.


Snood,

Let's test this. Please say something nice about Ben Carson (who is running second right now, and asking you to say something nice about Trump seems ridiculous) ...
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 07:27 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think you're right about the last. We all need to vote for the winner of the Convention. Congress and the Supreme Court is at stake, too.

I'm supporting Bernie into the Convention and I am supporting the winner into the election.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 07:28 am
@maxdancona,
Exactamundo.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 07:43 am
@maxdancona,
Ok, max. I'll play for a couple of posts - but that's it. I was wanting Lash's response to this, and I'm convinced from our previous exchanges that there is no satisfying your endless "tests".

Ben Carson was a hero when I was in my 20's and 30's. His was a name that got bandied about whenever we had to search the media for a black person we could be proud of (it's not as hard to find that sort of thing nowadays). When I saw him interviewed (on Donahue or something), I was impressed by how humble was this man who was obviously on the top of a field where black people are not very numerous.

I had nothing but good to say about Ben Carson - until he stopped being a genius neurosurgeon, and started carving out his niche as an ultraconservative. I think he is not just ideologically wrong - it's everyone's privilege to be of any ideology they choose in America - but so very operationally and logically wrong on every political stance he shakily takes.

There. Are you answered?

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 08:17 am
@snood,
OK Lash,

If you can give a similar statement about Hillary Clinton, then we can wrap up this tangent.

(I would be happy to give such a statement bout Hillary Clinton if you request one, Snood, but I think I already have.)
snood
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 10:24 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

OK Lash,

If you can give a similar statement about Hillary Clinton, then we can wrap up this tangent.

(I would be happy to give such a statement bout Hillary Clinton if you request one, Snood, but I think I already have.)


For the record, I don't expect Lash to say anything positive about Hillary. I'd just like to hear her answer about whether she'd not vote for Hillary even if it meant Trump would likely be president.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 05:20 pm
@snood,
I can't come up with a good reason to say anything positive about someone I dislike so much. As Max suggested, I won't ask you to say something positive about someone like Dick Cheney or W.

Regarding voting: I have considered what I'll do, and I ultimately decided not to trouble myself with hypotheticals. It's a waste of good energy. When the nominees have been chosen, I'll get with myself, and I'll be glad to tell you who I plan to vote for then. Smile

Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 06:44 pm
Nice contrast / compare between HRC and The Bern.

https://youtu.be/LSiN9vMrhtg
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 09:38 pm
Quote:
Nice contrast / compare between HRC and The Bern.


I wont read anything lash posts about Hillery and Bernie because I know her "Hillery is a bitch and Bernie is a God" rhetoric is all she is capable of.
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Oct, 2015 09:48 pm
@RABEL222,
So get on that.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Bernie's In
  3. » Page 72
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 06/09/2025 at 11:11:15