revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 10:53 am
@DrewDad,
Well, the Data supports the premise of Johnson and Stein taking away votes from Clinton, at least in the past. As more Trump supporters gets disgusted with Trump, that data may change. Several statisticians have said so, including 538, you can look it up. Here is a link from September before I think the famous video broke out of Trump bragging of his sexual assault practice on women.

Data: Gary Johnson pulling more votes away from Hillary than Trump



0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 10:55 am
@DrewDad,
Thank you. I have windows 10 and Microsoft Edge but perhaps it will still work.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 11:08 am
@joefromchicago,
I think that is a tricky question, no one in their right mind would encourage someone to vote for Trump. However, voting for Johnson and Stein is a vote taken away from Hillary which benefits Trump. What is more, Stein and Johnson are hardly a credit to Bernie Sanders and his ideas.

Tomasky: Dems Must Question Policies of Johnson and Stein
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 01:23 pm
@revelette2,
Candidates earn votes; they can't be "taken away." Sheesh! Duopoly mindset.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:10 pm
@Lash,
Perhaps in lofty circles, however in practical terms of votes tallying, every single votes counts in real terms. A vote for a third party candidate is taking away a vote from Clinton and giving it to Trump, there is no getting away from it. Bernie says the same.

Jul 7, 2016 at 5:55 PM
Election Update: Is Gary Johnson Taking More Support From Clinton Or Trump?

538
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:11 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

we agree to disagree on whose votes get stolen.


How about elderly, mostly black voters, people who've voted all their lives face being disenfranchised by unnecessary photo ID requirements.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:15 pm
@izzythepush,
bingo! (it's plain creepy/worse than creepy)
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:25 pm
I just did my early voting in Durham, NC. There was a sign prominently placed for those waiting in line to see - it read 'No Picture ID is Necessary to Vote'.
Thank you, Moral Monday people and Rev. Barber.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:38 pm
@snood,
It was false wasn't it? Did you or someone report it? I hope so.

ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 02:44 pm
@revelette2,
Meet the Preacher Behind Moral Mondays | Mother Jones
www.motherjones.com/.../william-barber-moral-monday-north-carolina
Mother Jones
Apr 14, 2014 - Meet the Preacher Behind Moral Mondays. The Reverend William Barber is charting a new path for protesting Republican overreach in the ...

You're picking on the wrong guy, from my pov, but also I am guessing likely yours.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 03:25 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I think that is a tricky question

farmerman is a big boy. I'm sure he can answer his own questions.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 03:52 pm
@joefromchicago,
I believe I already did.
joefromchicago
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 04:12 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I believe I already did.

Laughing Your assertions are precious dearie.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 04:36 pm
@ossobucotemp,
Your link didn't work for me.

I actually didn't know, which is why I was asking by putting a question mark on it. In any case, I looked up who Reverend William Barber is I was reminded just as I as I saw his quotes at the DNC convention; great man, I had forgotten, there has been so much happening this election. In any event, I googled NC ID laws to see if there has been changes and now I see that there has been, just recently passed. Great news. Some cases are still in court in other states even though registration time has passed. There might be a lot of confusion.

New voter ID rules, other election changes could cause confusion

Quote:
Less than three weeks before Election Day, new voter ID requirements, early voting schedules and voter registration rules in more than a dozen states are creating uncertainty that could dampen turnout.

In some states, courts are still hashing out new rules.

Fourteen states have election laws that are more restrictive than they were during the last presidential election in 2012. Most of them require voters to show a photo ID before casting their ballots.

Some of those ID laws have been scaled back or overturned by judges citing racial discrimination, but legal battles have continued in several states because voting rights advocates say state officials haven’t fully complied with court orders.

There is confusion stemming from other court cases as well. Kansas’ attempt to require proof of citizenship from voters is still tied up in court. In Ohio, the battle is over people the state purged from the voter rolls because they hadn’t voted in six years.

“One of the greatest impediments to voting is confusion,” said Lloyd Leonard with the League of Women Voters. “In some pretty important states the rules are still changing.”

Decided, Not Settled

Courts struck down strict voter ID laws in North Carolina and North Dakota and scaled back laws in Texas and Wisconsin. But even though the cases have been decided, they aren’t quite settled.

In Texas, North Carolina and Wisconsin, plaintiffs have returned to court to try to force state officials to follow through on court orders.

Under the voter ID law Texas approved in 2011, for example, driver’s licenses, passports, military IDs and concealed carry permits are accepted, but student IDs and tribal IDs are not.

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in July said the law violated the Voting Rights Act and asked a lower court to come up with a remedy. The lower court required the state to let the estimated 600,000 Texans without qualifying IDs vote so long as they sign an affidavit and present proof of identity like a utility bill or voter registration card.

But voting rights advocates and the Department of Justice accused the state in September of failing to make a good faith effort to educate voters about how the law had changed. A judge said the state’s education materials made it seem as if the affidavit would be available only to people who could not get an ID, as opposed to people who faced a reasonable impediment to getting one.

Jennifer Clark of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law, a think tank that advocates for voting rights and represented some of the Texas plaintiffs, said that distinction is important to people for whom retrieving a birth certificate from another state might mean missing work or having to find a babysitter.

The U.S. Supreme Court blocked North Carolina’s voter ID law from being used in the November election, though it was in place during the primary. An earlier opinion from the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals said the ID requirements, which were drawn up by legislators who requested data on the use of different types of IDs and voting methods by race, targeted African-Americans “with almost surgical precision.”

Following the 4th Circuit decision, which also restored the longer period for early voting in place before the ID law, Republican county election board officials received emails from party leaders urging them to limit early voting hours and locations to the bare minimum required under law.

An email obtained by North Carolina news organizations shows election officials were told by state Republican Party director Dallas Woodhouse that “as partisan appointees they have [a] duty to consider Republican points of view.”

The state elections board ultimately took control of several county plans and expanded access to early voting, but some of the original plaintiffs in the ID case are now suing over early voting plans in five counties.

Wisconsin’s law was upheld by a U.S. district judge who said the state could enforce the ID provision so long as the Division of Motor Vehicles gave visitors a piece of paper that certifies they are allowed to vote in the election, even if they lacked all the documents necessary to secure an ID. But that same judge later criticized the DMV after video surfaced showing employees weren’t providing the papers.

“Part of it could be deliberate recalcitrance, and part of it could be bureaucratic incompetence,” said Rick Hasen, a professor at the University of California-Irvine School of Law who watches election law litigation. “Whatever the intention of Wisconsin election officials, the DMV is not committed to helping get IDs in the hands of those who need them.”

In a recent court filing, the DMV said that although the problem was not widespread, it would do more training if directed by the court.

Cases and Confusion

Georgia and Alabama abandoned their efforts to require proof of citizenship from voters, at least for this election, but the battle continues in Kansas, where Republican Secretary of State Kris Kobach wanted the ballots of those who did not provide citizenship documents when they registered to be set aside until they could do so.

That action has spurred several lawsuits. In one, a county district court ruled Kansas could not keep separate voter registration lists for federal and state elections based on whether people had provided proof of citizenship. In another, Kobach agreed to allow those who had not provided proof of citizenship when visiting a DMV to vote in the election.

In a separate case filed by the League of Women Voters, a federal judge issued an injunction that allows Kansans to register using the federal form without having to provide citizenship documents. But that injunction is only in place until the U.S. District Court in Kansas rules on the case, which was argued Oct. 13.

Following a practice in place since the 1990s, Ohio purged thousands of voters from the rolls because they failed to vote in a six-year period. The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in September ruled that Ohio officials violated the National Voter Registration Act by removing the names, but it did not order the state to restore them. That issue is still being hashed out in a U.S. District Court, even though the state’s voter registration deadline was Oct. 11.

To help voters know where they stand, the League of Women Voters of Ohio has tried to get a list of those who were purged, but was able to get information from only some counties.

“Our big concern is, what do we tell these voters?” said Carrie Davis, the group’s executive director. “We’re worried there could be potentially a significant number of voters who show up to polls who think they’re registered to vote when they’re not.”

Ohio’s Republican Secretary of State John Husted proposed in court last week that those purged from the list be able to cast a provisional ballot on Election Day that would be counted as long as the voter’s address hasn’t changed and the elections board has no information that a person with that name is deceased. The litigants in the case, including the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, have not yet responded in court.

And in Virginia, the state Supreme Court in July blocked Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe’s effort to restore the voting rights of more than 200,000 people with a felony record all at once, forcing him to restore each person’s individually. So far McAuliffe’s office said he had restored the rights of 85,176 people. The state’s voter registration deadline was Oct. 17. Across the U.S., an estimated 6.1 million people with a felony record will not be able to vote in this year’s general election.

Tougher to Vote?

Voting rights groups say voter ID laws, the purging of voter rolls, fewer early voting locations in some cities, proof of citizenship requirements, felon voting laws, and confusion from litigation all contribute to it being tougher to vote than it was four years ago in many states.

“You don’t have to expressly prohibit people from voting to make it elusive to them,” said Denise Lieberman of the Advancement Project, a civil rights advocacy group. “By putting up hurdles and making it confusing, when it’s unclear if people got on rolls or not, by making people jump through extra hoops — it’s enough to keep voters from the polls.”

But some academics, including Hasen, say without registration numbers and turnout totals, it’s too early to tell what impact the new laws might have on the election.

And while voting rights issues have been heavily litigated this year, a number of laws passed over the past couple of years make it easier to vote.

A few states have enacted automatic voter registration. The number of states with online voter registration and same day voter registration has increased. And Maryland and California voted to expand the voting rights of felons.

“Voters have more options than ever before,” said Doug Chapin, an elections expert at the University of Minnesota who is also a consultant at The Pew Charitable Trusts (Pew also funds Stateline). “It’s easier to register to vote online. There are more options to vote other than an Election Day polling place, and it’s easier to get more information about what’s on the ballot and where to vote than ever before.”


Will respond tomorrow if you reply. Sorry if I offended anyone, I really didn't meant to.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 05:31 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

It was false wasn't it? Did you or someone report it? I hope so.



No, it was genuine. And that's a good thing, not a bad one.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 05:38 pm
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-21/bernie-sanders-is-running-a-shadow-campaign

Quote:
In Colorado, Bernie Sanders isn’t just acting as a surrogate for Hillary Clinton. He’s also holding separate events to keep his movement and its issues alive in a state he won handily in the June Democratic primary. Now he is urging his followers to support a ballot measure to establish the nation’s first universal health care system. It will probably be defeated, yet his backers, who have settled for a bird in the hand this year, are certain they own the future.


<snip - lots of good reading>

Quote:

Trump is an important reason why these young people, who mocked Clinton and called her corrupt last winter and spring, are now working for her. Trump has never missed a chance to appeal to Sanders supporters, telling them Clinton hadn’t won fairly -- but he hasn’t made inroads with the idealistic young people who turned out in force for Bernie.

I asked State Representative Jonathan Singer, another Sanders supporter and delegate, why he and other backers of the Bernie revolution decided to throw their support behind Clinton instead of waiting four years and get another shot at the big prize.

“Well, do you burn the village to save the village?” he answered. “The Nazis’ opponents also wanted them to fail at governing so they could win the next election. But will there be a next time? Can we afford a Trump Supreme Court?”


<snip more good reading>

Quote:

“I wish Nader had realized that he couldn’t win, come to Gore three days before the election and said, ‘I’ll tell my voters to vote for you if you do this on these three top issues,’” Singer says. “It could have turned out differently.”

Sanders did just that: He offered his support to Clinton in exchange for progressive changes to the Democratic platform and a tangible leftward shift in her program. If it weren’t for Sanders and his calls for free higher education, Clinton wouldn’t be talking about free community college; if it weren’t for his universal health care advocacy, she wouldn’t be pushing a public option in health care, a government-run coverage plan to compete with private insurers; if it weren’t for Bernie’s stringent opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, she’d probably still be for it.

After the election, Sanders’s supporters are looking forward to seeing their guru ascend the ranks of Senate leaders, with far more influence than he had as a maverick throughout most of his career.


<much more interesting reading at the link>

ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 05:42 pm
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-makes-powerful-case-continuing-revolution-under-clinton-administration

Quote:
Former Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders offered a compelling argument this week to those of his supporters still hesitant about a Hillary Clinton presidency. He explained that the success of the revolution relies not on who is president, but on the people continuing to fight for progressive ideals.


<snip>

Quote:

“Ideas that at one point were thought to be crazy and fringe are now incorporated in the Democratic National Platform,” Sanders said. “You did that.”

Holding up a copy of the Democratic National Platform, Sanders noted that at least 80 percent of the policies are “what we believe in.”

“Where do we go from here?” he asked. “We implement this.”


Quote:

"There was a significant coming together between the two campaigns and we produced, by far, the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party,” Sanders said at the Democratic National Convention in July. “Our job now is to see that platform implemented by a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House and a Hillary Clinton presidency. And I am going to do everything I can to make that happen.”


Quote:

“I want to see Clinton become president,” Sanders continued. “And the day after that, I and the progressive members of Congress, and hopefully millions of other people will say, President-elect Clinton, here is the Democratic National platform, it is a progressive document. We are going to be introducing legislation piece by piece by piece—on trade, on raising the minimum wage, on making public colleges and universities tuition-free, on a Medicare-for-all single-payer program, on rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure.”

Sanders said those who still don’t believe Clinton will follow through with the progressive party platform are “going to have to work with [him] to make sure that it happens.”

“This is not trust,” Sanders argued. “We’re not here to trust. It is the very opposite of what I am saying: To say, oh sit back, elect Clinton and then trust.”


“No,” he continued. “Mobilize. Educate. Fight.”


0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 05:49 pm
https://newrepublic.com/article/137103/bernie-looks-ahead

Quote:
Now, after laboring for years as a lone voice on the left, Sanders suddenly finds himself speaking for millions. It’s an unexpected role, and not without its pitfalls. Having won twelve million votes in the Democratic primaries—a showing that exposed the deep rift between younger voters and the party establishment—Sanders faces a new challenge: how to continue to pressure the party from the left without tearing it apart in the process. The internal tensions have been apparent from the start: In August, when Sanders launched his new organization, Our Revolution, key staffers resigned in protest over the group’s structure, which permits it to accept contributions from billionaires without revealing the donors.


<snip - another long interesting read>

Quote:
All right, let’s talk about the young voters you mentioned. During the primaries, almost three-quarters of voters under the age of 30 cast their ballots for you. What do you say to your younger supporters who don’t plan to vote for Clinton because they see her as too establishment-oriented?

Look, I ran against Hillary for over a year, so I understand where she is coming from. For me, this is not a tough choice. I am a United States senator, and I know what would happen to our government if Donald Trump became president. I think Donald Trump is the worst candidate for a major party that has surfaced in my lifetime. This guy would be a disaster for this country and an embarrassment to us internationally. A man who is a pathological liar. Somebody who, to the degree that he deals with issues at all, changes his position every day. That is clearly not the kind of mentality we need from somebody who is running for the highest office in the land.

What is particularly outrageous and disturbing is that the cornerstone of his campaign is based on bigotry—trying to turn people against Mexican-Americans or against Muslims or against women. To my mind, it’s very clear that Donald Trump would be an incredible disaster to this country, and I will do everything I can to see that he is defeated.


Quote:
So what I would ask people is to take a hard look at (a) what a Donald Trump presidency would mean for this country, which in my view would be a disaster, and (b) how Clinton’s views on a number of issues are fairly good. That is what we should be focusing on—not the personalities of the candidates, but what their policies will do for the middle class and working families of this country.


<long snip>

Quote:
Anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton will not be more sympathetic, more open to the ideas we have advocated than Donald Trump obviously knows very little. So the day after the election, we begin the effort of making Clinton the most progressive president that she can become. And the way we do that is by rallying millions of people.

You ask me about my personal life. I’ve got seven beautiful grandchildren, and I want them to be able to grow up in a decent country. We all have the responsibility to work as hard as we can to make that happen—understanding, as has always been the case, that there are gonna be obstacles in the way. Look up what happened to Eugene Debs. He spent his life working to build a socialist movement, only to see it destroyed. Then ten years later, FDR picked up half of what Debs was talking about.

That’s how the world works. We don’t have the luxury to give up, OK?
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 05:52 pm
@revelette2,
You didn't offend me - my computing now is like swimming in an abacus.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Oct, 2016 07:16 pm
@joefromchicago,
now dont be killing my lines by overuse
0 Replies
 
 

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