cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 04:51 pm
@revelette2,
Is 50% half true and pants on fire make her credible?
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 05:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The premise of your question is incorrect. From PoliticFact, she has the highest rating for truthfulness, beating out Sanders. She has 56 mostly true statements and 46 true Statements. So yes, she is credible.

georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 05:26 pm
@revelette2,
I think the art is in selecting the statements. She certainly appears to be quite addicted to deceptions on matters involving her culpability as in the email server and Bengazi issues. It goes farther back as well. Ciceroine and I are not the only people who believe this is a chronic problem for her. Your "proof" is out of context and unconvincing.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 05:43 pm
@revelette2,
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 06:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So you clicked on her false statements which are less than her true statements. Try this this page to get whole truth.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 06:21 pm
@georgeob1,
Says you who said for the longest time the Iraq war was the right thing to do. Her testimony of her Benghazi hearing was truthful and her email usage is overblown since other secretaries of state did the same.



reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 06:39 pm
@revelette2,
Do you think Hillary and Donald are similar?

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 06:49 pm
@reasoning logic,
They are similar in that the general public makes their choice based on their personal subjective interpretations of the candidates. That's the reason why both have supporters.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 06:57 pm
(posting this on The Pro Hillary Thread also)
Hillary has been dishonest about some things. No doubt about that. I happen to think it's ludicrous to try to make that the defining aspect of her life and character. That's kind of the sticking point for me. I think it's very possible to take Hillary as a whole - not ignore the negatives - and come to the conclusion she'd be an effective president who could move the progressive agenda forward.

Hell, I cringe when I hear about how she lied about being in the line of sniper fire in Bosnia when she wasn't. She said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary and she wasn't. She said she tried to join the marines, and she didn't. She has danced around the truth a lot to try to enhance her image, and I think she's probably got some things on her Goldman Sachs transcripts that she would be ashamed to see go public.

But I also believe that her heart is in the right place about a myriad of issues, and that her record bears that out. You don't work as long and hard for causes like children's and women's healthcare as Hillary has just for shits and grins, or for nefarious reasons. You don't vote on the right side of 90+% of the issues if it's not part of who you are as a legislator and a person. You can't face down a rabid Benghazi committee for 11 hours on national tv, and keep your cool, and stay after to shake everyone's hand - if you have a weak character. You don't fight like a feral cat to get your parties nomination, lose, then publicly give full throated endorsement and months of high profile support to your opponent if you are a person of weak, or low character. That is what fight looks like. That is what persistence looks like. She is the most knowledgeable, has the most useful and powerful allies, has experienced the most political warfare and is simply the best qualified person running for president, all things considered.

Okay, that got said.
I now return you to the 24 hour a day, 7 day a week, 365 day a year harangue trying to convince you that she's the devil and will take us all to hell.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 07:00 pm
@revelette2,
Quote revellette:
Quote:
Her testimony of her Benghazi hearing was truthful and her email usage is overblown since other secretaries of state did the same.


I agree and as Election Day nears, the Republicans will find that the "legs" on these issues will begin disappearing, like the nonsense IRS "scandal". Another issue that for the last several elections has seemed huge several months before the election and barely mentioned the last month is immigration. That falls apart too.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 07:05 pm
@snood,
Quote:

I now return you to the 24 hour a day, 7 day a week, 365 day a year harangue trying to convince you that she's the devil and will take us all to hell.


I don't think she is the devil, The devil told the truth for the most part of what I remember. She seems more like a wolf in sheep's clothing to me.

snood
 
  4  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2016 07:07 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:

I now return you to the 24 hour a day, 7 day a week, 365 day a year harangue trying to convince you that she's the devil and will take us all to hell.


I do not think she is the devil, The devil told the truth on most of what I remember. She seems more like a wolf in sheep's clothing to me.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRcsUFz6OK0[/youtube]
\
Okay, wrong metaphor. Same general idea.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 08:51 am
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 09:47 am
Since the Pope was mentioned on this thread some time back, I thought I would post encouraging uplifting news for a refreshing change.

Pope approves measures to oust bishops who botch abuse cases

I am not normally so interested in Pope's, but this one, is one of a kind imo.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:40 am
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 10:58 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
For those of you salivating — or trembling — at the thought of Hillary Clinton being clapped in handcuffs as she prepares to deliver her acceptance speech at the Democratic convention this summer: deep, cleansing breath. Based on the available facts and the relevant precedents, criminal prosecution of Clinton for mishandling classified information in her emails is extraordinarily unlikely.

My exasperation with Clinton’s use of a private email server while secretary of state is long-standing and unabated. Lucky for her, political idiocy is not criminal.

There are plenty of unattractive facts but not a lot of clear evidence of criminality, and we tend to forget the distinction,” American University law professor Stephen Vladeck, an expert on prosecutions involving classified information, told me. “This is really just a political firestorm, not a criminal case.”

Could a clever law student fit the fact pattern into a criminal violation? Sure. Would a responsible federal prosecutor pursue it? Hardly — absent new evidence, based on my conversations with experts in such prosecutions.

There are two main statutory hooks. Title 18, Section 1924, a misdemeanor, makes it a crime for a government employee to “knowingly remove” classified information “without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location.”

Prosecutors used this provision in securing a guilty plea from former CIA director David H. Petraeus, who was sentenced to probation and fined $100,000. But there are key differences between Petraeus and Clinton.

Petraeus clearly knew the material he provided to Paula Broadwell was classified and that she was not authorized to view it. “Highly classified . . . code word stuff in there,” he told her. He lied to FBI agents, the kind of behavior that tends to inflame prosecutors.

In Clinton’s case, by contrast, there is no clear evidence that Clinton knew (or even should have known) that the material in her emails was classified. Second, it is debatable whether her use of the private server constituted removal or retention of material. Finally, the aggravating circumstance of false statements to federal agents is, as far as we know, absent.

The government used the same statute in 2005 against former national security adviser Sandy Berger, who was sentenced to probation and fined $50,000. Here, too, the conduct was more evidently egregious than what the public record shows about Clinton’s. Berger, at the National Archives preparing for the 9/11 investigations, twice took copies of a classified report out of the building, hiding the documents in his clothes.

For Clinton, the worst public fact involves a 2011 email exchange with aide Jake Sullivan. When she has trouble receiving a secure fax, Clinton instructs Sullivan to “turn [it] into nonpaper [with] no identifying heading and send nonsecure.” But Clinton has said she was not asking for classified information. In any event, it does not appear her instructions were followed.

Another possible prosecutorial avenue involves the Espionage Act. Section 793(d) makes it a felony if a person entrusted with “information relating to the national defense” “willfully communicates, delivers [or] transmits” it to an unauthorized person. That might be a stretch given the “willfully” requirement.

Section 793(f) covers a person with access to “national defense” information who through “gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust.” The government has used the “gross negligence” provision to prosecute a Marine sergeant who accidentally put classified documents in his gym bag, then hid them in his garage rather than returning them, and an Air Force sergeant who put classified material in a Dumpster so he could get home early.

The argument here would be that Clinton engaged in such “gross negligence” by transferring information she knew or should have known was classified from its “proper place” onto her private server, or by sharing it with someone not authorized to receive it. Yet, as the Supreme Court has said, “gross negligence” is a “nebulous” term. Especially in the criminal context, it would seem to require conduct more like throwing classified materials into a Dumpster than putting them on a private server that presumably had security protections.

My point here isn’t to praise Clinton’s conduct. She shouldn’t have been using the private server for official business in the first place. It’s certainly possible she was cavalier about discussing classified material on it; that would be disturbing but she wouldn’t be alone, especially given rampant over-classification.

The handling of the emails is an entirely legitimate subject for FBI investigation. That’s a far cry from an indictable offense.


source


reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 11:10 am
This is a must see for Bernie supporters.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 12:39 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
Based on the available facts and the relevant precedents, criminal prosecution of Clinton for mishandling classified information in her emails is extraordinarily unlikely.


It's unlikely because with all the effort of those trying to get her prosecuted, it didn't happen - and it won't.

Republicans love to make mountains out of mole hills, and they keep throwing **** against the wall hoping something will stick. It ain't gonna happen.

Just proves republicans waste time and money on useless issues rather than what's important to this country. Their gridlock speaks volumes, but republicans are deaf and dumb, and keep reelecting them into office.

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 01:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
I am not clicking it, why only Bernie supporters? Have they taken ownership of MLK?
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2016 01:18 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
Have they taken ownership of MLK?


Yes they now own the copyrights.
 

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