Maybe an election with Trump nd Sanders as the two candidates is really what we deserve. Then the choice would be between a clueless old zealot and a lying narcissist. The political system would be upended for a few years (like what happened after the Civil Rights Act) and maybe the present oligarchic Fascist Republic could finally be stymied.
I dont think that Trump or Sanders would do any irreparable harm.
But look at what happened with Jesse "The Body" Ventura. Minnesota didnt collapse.
Zealot is a fair descriptor. Clueless, not. His votes and stemwinders videotaped for posterity show him to be right about economic, military, and social issues when most everyone else was wrong. He's been proven to have been almost eerily prescient about so many things; "clueless" doesn't fit Bernie.
Who would you prefer?
0 Replies
parados
4
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Sat 7 May, 2016 06:57 am
@snood,
I guess Bernie doesn't know what is in the current platform since much of what he is for is already there.
Oregon is expected to go overwhelmingly for Bernie and he will gain about 20 delegates on Clinton with his victory there. He will then lose those 20 delegates back when Clinton takes NJ with a lower margin of victory because NJ has double the delegates that Oregon has.
Bernie takes 40-21 delegates in Oregon (67% margin for Sanders)
Clinton takes 73-53 delegates in NJ. (57% margin for Clinton)
0 Replies
Brand X
1
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Sat 7 May, 2016 07:07 am
@parados,
He's just in to take the credit.
0 Replies
Blickers
2
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Sat 7 May, 2016 07:27 am
@snood,
Quote snood:
Quote:
I think having all of Bernie's stump issues represented in the party platform would make for one hell of an ambitious platform, but the thing is - who the hell reads or refers to that document after the convention?
Well, there was a big flap in 1996, when Dole wanted to appear not as hardline anti-abortion, (whatever that means), and he was unable to prevent a strong anti-abortion plank in the party platform. Much talk about Dole "going to the center" at the time. Mind you, he wasn't going to do anything to uphold Roe vs Wade, so it was all pretty much smoke and mirrors.
I do believe putting something into the party's platform does have something to do with solidifying the party's position on something. Every now and then when examining past issues, you will see an article about some issue was part of either party's platform since 1960, or whatever. It has a subtle effect.
I think having all of Bernie's stump issues represented in the party platform would make for one hell of an ambitious platform, but the thing is - who the hell reads or refers to that document after the convention?
Well, there was a big flap in 1996, when Dole wanted to appear not as hardline anti-abortion, (whatever that means), and he was unable to prevent a strong anti-abortion plank in the party platform. Much talk about Dole "going to the center" at the time. Mind you, he wasn't going to do anything to uphold Roe vs Wade, so it was all pretty much smoke and mirrors.
I do believe putting something into the party's platform does have something to do with solidifying the party's position on something. Every now and then when examining past issues, you will see an article about some issue was part of either party's platform since 1960, or whatever. It has a subtle effect.
I can't really dispute that - don't know one way or another, but suspect you're correct that raising a big stink about certain issues at convention could affect what goes into the platform and later have some tangential effect on how that party governs.
For me, the fact that there will probably be negligible congregate effect of contesting the convention just to include certain planks brings Bernie's motivation into question.
He doesn't seem to give any consideration at all to the possible negative effect he could have on the Democrats' chances by continuing to peck at the probable nominee. For one thing, his eventual endorsement is going to sound more and more dubious, the longer he takes to give it.
Bernie's followers are wary of his possible endorsement of HRC, and Elizabeth Warren has lost credibility among a wide swath of Bernie voters per surprising trends on social media
Bernie's followers are wary of his possible endorsement of HRC, and Elizabeth Warren has lost credibility among a wide swath of Bernie voters per surprising trends on social media
Fortunately, you represent only a fringe of starry eyed Bernie followers. Fortunately, most of Bernie's support will eventually swing to Hillary. Leaving those like you who doubt even the motives of someone like Elizabeth Warren to caper and babble about in an echo chamber filled with insignificant nutsos.
Washington (CNN) — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Friday he plans to keep fighting for the Democratic nomination all the way to the convention in Philadelphia, but did not slam the door shut on possibly joining Hillary Clinton's ticket.
Asked by CNN's Wolf Blitzer if he would accept a hypothetical offer to be Clinton's running mate, Sanders said he would talk about it with her after the convention.
If I was Hillary, I wouldn't have him as my Veep. I'm not sure there would be a good place anywhere in a Hillary administration for a Bernie Sanders. I think he would best serve as a Senate leader. After all this, at least now some Senators would listen to him.
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Lash
0
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Sat 7 May, 2016 10:58 am
@snood,
Trends on social media stand as fact, despite my opinion or yours.
0 Replies
edgarblythe
3
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Sat 7 May, 2016 11:05 am
People don't seem to remember what it was like, when we had Roosevelt, Truman and Eisenhower in office. Under them, we became the richest, most powerful nation on Earth. It was not then, and never has been, anywhere, utopia. We were coming out of the Great Depression and grappling with Jim Crow, McCarthyism, and such. But the spirit and programs these leaders represent is pretty much what Bernie Sanders represents. He is not the wide eyed radical Hillarybots paint him to be. If anything, Hillary is the wide eyed radical. I suppose it will take another four to eight years to wake up the party, if it is not too late by then. Somebody is going to reap the votes of America's unrest. I hope it is not a Cruz or Perry.
It is not that I don't agree with you that we need some of the things Bernie and others leftist leaders in politics have been talking about, I do, to a point. However, we can't force congress to go along with those plans and Bernie does not seem to do slow steps. All of his plans depend on a nation wide revolution type movement which does not seem to be happening to bring it about.
I don't know what kind of a President Hillary would be if she is nominated, to tell the truth, you guys have inched away a little of my confidence she would be a good one. However, she has a better chance of being nominated than Sanders despite the polls which say otherwise. Like others have said, Sanders has not been scrutinized in the same negative fashion as Hillary. He has been ignored or marginalized but not had a lot of negative reporting. With what we do know of Sanders, those of us who keep up with this sort of stuff, the right would make Obama look conservative in comparison. Much would be made of the fact that all of his proposals would have to come from government in the form of taxes. Polls have shown once people are asked how they feel about that, they support his proposals a little less, in some cases, a lot less.
I am hoping we take the senate and Hillary does keep to the left and we gets some higher taxes on the 1% so that we can have more benefits in paying for free community college and things like that. I see that as highly doable. Mostly I hope Hillary nominates a leftist judge who will be on the bench for a long time to come (a young one) so that we can get citizens united out and keep planned parenthood and things like that.
I know you guys don't like compromises, but we live in the US who have become so right wing it would more years to undo than just instantly with a revolution.
Reminds me of the Beatles song---
I can't hear it, but you know the song probably. Seemed kind of static sounding.
Sorry to run on but I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from and I honestly wish there wasn't such hard feelings between us all.
I can't hear it, but you know the song probably. Seemed kind of static sounding.
I thought that maybe your hearing was bad but it was a poor quality audio, this one is a little better but Tracy does a better job in the seconded video in my opinion.
Bernie's followers are wary of his possible endorsement of HRC, and Elizabeth Warren has lost credibility among a wide swath of Bernie voters per surprising trends on social media
Social media's full of paid trolls. The Republicans have made no secret that they want Bernie to be the Democratic nominee, and apparently the Russians, buoyed by the idea that there is a presidential candidate so stupid that he would break up NATO, are chiming in. Not as Russians, of course. As pretend-Americans.
Be on the lookout for social media posts talking about how "Trump will prevent America from falling due to petrodollar, comrade".
0 Replies
ehBeth
2
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Sat 7 May, 2016 02:49 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
I am hoping we take the senate and Hillary does keep to the left and we gets some higher taxes on the 1% so that we can have more benefits in paying for free community college and things like that. I see that as highly doable. Mostly I hope Hillary nominates a leftist judge who will be on the bench for a long time to come (a young one) so that we can get citizens united out and keep planned parenthood and things like that.
I know you guys don't like compromises, but we live in the US who have become so right wing it would more years to undo than just instantly with a revolution.
Sorry to run on but I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from and I honestly wish there wasn't such hard feelings between us all.
make that 2 or 3 judges and I'd have found a way to give this 5 thumbs
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revelette2
1
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Sat 7 May, 2016 02:54 pm
@reasoning logic,
I was born with a hearing loss, getting worse the older I get. But I remember the song well. I did notice the static was gone. Yeah, I like her a lot. I love her first song, "Fast car." (I think that is the name)
