Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 09:30 am
Sanders is a way of losing an election that can be won.

Sanders is a way of damaging a progressive agenda to a much greater degree than the conservatives can do on their own.

If Hillary Clinton offends you in some way...fine. Let's find someone better for the top spot. But to put someone like Sanders or Warren at the head of the ticket is political suicide.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 09:49 am
Repeating the same statement over and over is not helpful. People will think for themselves, regardless.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 10:02 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Repeating the same statement over and over is not helpful. People will think for themselves, regardless.


There are times when repeating the same statement over and over again is not only helpful, Edgar, it is essential.

You folk are constantly touting Sanders...and I am replying by cautioning against buying into it.

Sanders would be a disaster for a progressive agenda...because he would lose in a landslide. We do not need that side winning by a landslide.

Tout him all you want...as often as you want.

But don't tell me I ought not to refute the touting...because that is not going to work.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 10:07 am
But people get tired of it. If they care about what you are saying, we already have it all in black and white, triplicate, etc. Doubling down is like teaching a pig to sing. All it does is annoy the pig.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 10:10 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

But people get tired of it. If they care about what you are saying, we already have it all in black and white, triplicate, etc. Doubling down is like teaching a pig to sing. All it does is annoy the pig.


Why don't you people stop touting him?

Why are they not tired of hearing you guys tout him day after day...but are tired of me suggesting caution?

If it tires you or annoys you...please pass over it, Edgar. I am not doing it to tire or annoy...just to counter the continuing sponsorship of Sanders...who I consider to be a horrible idea for a candidate...no matter that I love what he has to say.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 10:42 am
Here are 20 ways Sanders has stood up for civil and minority rights, starting in the early 1950s up to the present year.

1. Raising Money For Korean Orphans: International solidarity was an unusual concept for any American to have in the 1950s, let alone a high school student. But one of Sanders' first campaigns was to run for class president at James Madison High School in New York City. His platform was based around raising scholarship funds for Korean war orphans. Although he lost, the person who did win the campaign decided to endorse Sanders' campaign, and scholarships were created.

2. Being Arrested For Desegregation: As a student at the University of Chicago, Sanders was active in both the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). In 1962, he was arrested for protesting segregation in public schools in Chicago; the police came to call him an outside agitator, as he went around putting up flyers around the city detailing police brutality.

3. Marching In March On Washington:Sanders joined the mega-rally called by the leaders of the civil rights movement, a formative event of his youth.

4. Calling For Full Gay Equality: 40 years ago, Sanders started his political life by running with a radical third party in Vermont called the Liberty Union Party. As a part of the platform, he called for abolishing all laws related to discrimination against homosexuality.

5. Standing Up For Victims Of U.S. Imperialism In Latin America: While mayor of Burlington, Vermont, Sanders formally protested the Reagan government's policy of sending arms to Central America to repress left-wing movements. In 1985, he traveled to Nicaragua to condemn the war on people there. He writes about it in his book Outsider In The House: “The trip to Nicaragua was a profoundly emotional experience....I was introduced to a crowd of hundreds of thousands who gathered for the anniversary celebration. I will never forget that in the front row of the huge crowd were dozens and dozens of amputees in wheelchairs – young soldiers, many of them in their teens, who had lost their legs in a war foisted on them and financed by the U.S. government.”

6. Condemned And Opposed Welfare Reform and Dog Whistle Politics:While President Bill Clinton and most Democrats in Congress supported so-called welfare reform politics, Sanders not only voted against this policy change, but wrote eloquently against the dog whistle politics used to sell it, saying, “The crown jewel of the Republican agenda is their so-called welfare reform proposal. The bill, which combines an assault on the poor, women and children, minorities, and immigrants is the grand slam of scapegoating legislation, and appeals to the frustrations and ignorance of the American people along a wide spectrum of prejudices.”

7. Vocally Condemned and Opposed Death Penalty and Prisons His Entire Political Career: Sanders has long been a critic of “tough on crime” policies. Here he is in 1991 condemning a crime bill for promoting “state murder” through expansion of the death penalty:

“My friends, we have the highest percentage of people in jail per capita of any nation on earth....What do we have to do, put half the country behind bars? Mistser Speaker, instead of talking about punishment and vengeance, let us talk about the real issue. How do we get to the root causes of crime? How do we stop crime? … I've got a problem with a president and Congress that allows five million people to go hungry, two million people to sleep out on the street, cities to become breeding grounds for drugs and violence. And they say we're getting tough on crime. If you want to get tough on crime, let's deal with the causes of crime. Let's demand that every man, woman, and child in this country have a decent opportunity and a decent standard of living. Let's not keep putting more people into jail and disproportionately punishing blacks.”

He also voted for an amendment in the crime bill to eliminate the death penalty with life imprisonment.


8. Voted Against Cutting Off Prisoners From Federal Education Funds: In the 1990s, there was a successful effort to end the Pell Grant program for prisoners, which was one of the most effective ways to reduce recidivism. Only a handful of members of Congress voted against the legislation, and almost all of them were members of the Black Caucus. Sanders was one of the few white members who opposed this effort. It passed by 351 to 39. Of those in the House who opposed that vote, few are still serving; Reps. John Lewis, Jose Serrano, Charlie Rangel, and Bernie Sanders stood together at that time and continue to serve today.

9. Took IMF To Task For Oppressing Developing World Workers: In a 1998 committee hearing, Sanders took Clinton administration official Robert Rubin to task for not enforcing a provision to protect the rights of workers in Indonesia. “Tell the world now that no more IMF money goes to that country, goes to [dictator] Suharto!” he thundered to Rubin, who later went on to be the chief architect of policies that led us to the Great Recession. “The IMF historically does not have a good record in terms of the poor people of various countries,” he noted, standing up for the poorest black and brown people on the planet, tackling an institution few in Congress dare to criticize.

10. Achieved High Ratings From Leading Civil Rights Organizations: A frequent critique of Sanders is that he is from a very white state. While this is true, he certainly has not ignored issues that matter to people of color. In 2002, he achieved a 93 percent rating from the ACLU and a 97% rating by the NAACP in 2006.

11. Voted Against the PATRIOT Act: The USA PATRIOT Act was passed in a 98-2 vote in the Senate and a 357-66 vote in the House. Sanders voted against it, and has voted against renewing it every single time. The law has been used to violate the rights of Arab and Muslim Americans, but few know how extensively it has been used in the drug war; from 2009 to 2010, the law was invoked for 3,034 narcotics cases and only 37 terrorism cases.

12. Opposed Both Iraq Wars on Moral Grounds: Sanders was opposed to U.S. involvement in both Iraq wars. While many simply talked about the war in terms of the impact it would have on the United States, Sanders went further, saying that the “death and destruction caused” would “not be forgotten by the poor people of the Third World.”

13. Traveled to Costa Rica to Defend Exploited Workers:Sanders traveled to Costa Rica to help organize workers opposing the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA). While many critics of trade agreements do so on the grounds that Americans deserve jobs that could be lost to foreign countries, Sanders instead practices a form of solidarity politics, saying that workers in both countries are being exploited by corporations and so we must organize workers in both countries.

14. Endorsed Jesse Jackson, Spoke Up For Palestinians: In 1988, Jesse Jackson was the first competitive black candidate for the Democratic nomination for the presidency. He came under fierce attack for his advocacy of Palestinian statehood. Sanders came to his aid, organizing Vermonters and winning the state for Jackson. Sanders was asked about Jackson's comments on Palestine and defended him, saying that the Israeli assault on Palestinians was “reprehensible.”

15. Strongly Condemned Police Violence Over the Past Year: One criticism of Sanders is that he avoids talking about police violence in favor of talking about the economy. While the economy forms the bulk of his pitch, he has repeatedly condemned police violence during the duration of the Black Lives Matter movement. Here he is in mid-August 2014, before frontrunner Clinton ever spoke about the issue. Here (8/20/14) are (8/24/14) a (8/18/14) few (6/6/2015) more (4/30/2015) examples (6/2015).

16. Embraced Immigrants When Hillary Clinton Refused To Talk To Them: In 2014, young immigration activists repeatedly tried to talk to Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton to ask her about executive action. While Clinton did not talk to them, Bernie Sanders was not only willing to talk, but agreed with their call for executive action.

17. Defended Voting Rights Against Voter Suppression Efforts: Sanders earned the endorsement of radical rapper Killer Mike by his leadership on defending the Voter Rights Act and calling for expanding voting rights.


18. Fought Against Employment Discrimination: Sanders was a strong supporter of legislation to end workplace discrimination against LGBT Americans.

19. Called For End to War On Drugs, For-Profit Prisons and Migrant Detention Quotas:Sanders supports decriminalizing marijuna, and believes the war on drugs to be a failure. Additionally, he has vowed to end for-profit prisons and immigrant detention quotas.

20. Put Out Detailed Plan to End Economic Crisis in Minority Communities: Many argue that Sanders views the issue of racial justice in too myopic a fashion by focusing on the economy. But polling of both Latinos and African Americans shows that jobs and the economy is either their top concern or tied for their top concern. Gallup polling shows that 13 percent of Hispanics say immigration is their top concern; 47 percent say the economy is. Meanwhile, among black Americans, 13 percent say “race relations” is their top concern, tied with “unemployment/jobs,” an additional 10 percentage points go to the “economy in general.” Combined, economic concerns make up 23 percentage points while race relations compose 13 percent. If you add in healthcare, at 6 percent, another major Sanders theme, it gets you up to 29 percent. Add in poverty at 7 percent and education at 5 percent and you're up to 41 percent of African Americans naming Bernie Sanders' top issues as their top issues.

This validates Sanders' strategy of looking to the economy as the top concern of minority communities. He has put out a detailed strategy to target unemployment across America and particularly to attack Hispanic and black youth unemployment, which he introduced in August 2014, long before he announced for president.

None of this is to say that the Sanders campaign doesn't need to do more outreach to a broad array of people; the rallies in Phoenix, Houston and Dallas were a start, as they featured heavy presence of Latino and African Americans. The campaign is reportedly set to meet with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference next week, and will be campaigning heavily in the Southeast starting next month, with an event in New Orleans at the tail end of this month.

But much of the criticism of Sanders seems more rooted in who he is — an old white guy from Vermont — than what he has done. If anything, the fact that he has done so much for civil and minority rights despite the fact that his constituency is not one that would naturally demand it speaks to his character and wide empathy that isn't shared by many politicians.

Zaid Jilani is an AlterNet staff writer. Follow @zaidjilani on Twitter.

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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 11:01 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

This validates Sanders' strategy of looking to the economy as the top concern of minority communities. He has put out a detailed strategy to target unemployment across America and particularly to attack Hispanic and black youth unemployment, which he introduced in August 2014, long before he announced for president.

None of this is to say that the Sanders campaign doesn't need to do more outreach to a broad array of people; the rallies in Phoenix, Houston and Dallas were a start, as they featured heavy presence of Latino and African Americans. The campaign is reportedly set to meet with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference next week, and will be campaigning heavily in the Southeast starting next month, with an event in New Orleans at the tail end of this month.


he's really got to push to get the message out to the Hispanic/Latino community
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 11:14 am
He cannot even get the respect and admiration of the people he is helping...

...and you guys think he can be elected president by the general populace.

Is there no limit to the folly of the fringe elements?

If the Democrats allow the fringe left to take over the party the way the fringe right has managed to gain control of the Republican Party...

...and if the Democrats select Bernie Sanders to be the standard bearer for 2016...

...the Republicans will wipe the floor with you people.

You guys are steadying the hand of someone trying to slit your throats.

I can only hope saner heads in the party prevail.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 11:26 am
@ehBeth,
I think he will be pushed into reaching out on a personal level, to minorities, as the primary season and the debates kick in.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 11:39 am
@edgarblythe,
The timing is also good for reaching out to millenials who are returning to college. Get them registered and voting while they're feeling keen.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:03 pm
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_h4Szuwb30NA/TLSV2F4v28I/AAAAAAAAAIM/_Im8-WZfnI4/s1600/byb-temper-tantrum-cartoon.jpg

I'm going to counsel Democrats to commit political suicide...and I don't care what anyone says about it.

http://cdn.xl.thumbs.canstockphoto.com/canstock3531793.jpg

And don't tell me I'm wrong because I am not going to listen.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's a useful list, thank, EB.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:13 pm
@ossobuco,
Nobody is perfect, but if Bernie makes it to the Texas primary he has my vote.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:28 pm
@roger,
What do you consider proper qualifications?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:32 pm
I never reply to unsolicited emails, no matter who it claims to be from. But I read some. This was in my inbox a few minutes ago.

Dear Friend,

Bernie just spoke to eleven thousand in Arizona. Fifteen thousand in Texas. These numbers are totally unprecedented for this stage in a presidential election in any state, let alone Red states. Millions of people are stepping up and signing up to build a movement around Bernie’s campaign.

What next? This: On the evening of July 29th, Bernie will speak to another unprecedented crowd. And this time, no matter where you live, you can attend. Bernie will be speaking via video to more than 1,500 separate events -- all organized by volunteers, in their homes, in local pubs and coffee shops, in union halls, and in large auditoriums.

Reserve your spot at a kickoff meeting near you before everything fills up: Click here to see the meetings near you.

Why are so many people coming out to support Bernie? Because we know who he is -- and he knows who he his. We know who he stands for -- the people -- and who he doesn’t stand for -- the billionaire class. And anyone who watches Bernie speak for even a few minutes sees what we already know: he’s not a stage-managed triangulator -- he’s the real deal.

That’s why it’s so important on July 29, that you not only bring yourself, but bring your friends too.

This is just the beginning, team. This is only our first official organizing kickoff. And we all know where this is going to end: With a grassroots movement powerful enough to take this country back from the billionaire class -- and Bernie in the White House to help us do it.

Let’s go!

Team Bernie

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:37 pm
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_h4Szuwb30NA/TLSV2F4v28I/AAAAAAAAAIM/_Im8-WZfnI4/s1600/byb-temper-tantrum-cartoon.jpg

I'm going to counsel Democrats to commit political suicide...and I don't care what anyone says about it.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
He's first on my list but my list isn't in concrete yet. Your recent link helped.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  5  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

And don't tell me I'm wrong because I am not going to listen.


We know.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:46 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

And don't tell me I'm wrong because I am not going to listen.


We know.


Nice try.
What's next..."I know you are, but what am I?"


http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/i_know_you_are_pee_wee_herman.gif
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Jul, 2015 01:48 pm
@roger,
And you probably are going to be advised, "Don't feed the troll."

"Troll" is what they call someone who disagrees with them!
Wink
 

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