cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 07:42 pm
@snood,
Who knows? He really didn't make that clear, did he, since Obama is now in office, not Hillary.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 07:44 pm
@snood,
He's been known to get damagingly glib at these talkfests. It has been an issue with the HRC campaign admininstrators; his popularity vs his serious verbal "gaffes."
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 07:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Who knows? He really didn't make that clear, did he, since Obama is now in office, not Hillary.

Who knows? It appears you and Lash do.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 07:52 pm
Quote:
An aide? Come on! What was so difficult about saying it was about "Republicans' obstructionism?"


So...if Bill had made the correction, you'd be okay with it? Not really, huh?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 08:11 pm
@snood,
Yes.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 08:13 pm
@snood,
Olden embarrassing gaffes on HRC's campaign trail... http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/17/mann.bill.clinton/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

More recent, I think. http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/04/politics/bill-clinton-hillary-clinton-2016-campaign/

As evidenced by the piece above, Bill has a tendency to trawl low for race-related insults, so it is amazing to me that any self-respecting black American would vote for either of them, but they own most of the black vote for some reason I'm sure I can't fathom.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 08:31 pm
@Lash,
We blaks just not fisticated like you in our poly-tickle figgurin. Must be it.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 08:52 pm
@snood,
You best get fisticated or keep your hands on your knees.

Why don't you give a **** what Danny Glover and Belafonte are saying? They don't bend over for anybody.
snood
 
  5  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 09:06 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You best get fisticated or keep your hands on your knees.

Why don't you give a **** what Danny Glover and Belafonte are saying? They don't bend over for anybody.


You are actually arrogant enough to think you know what's best for me, and for all blacks. You really believe the blacks who make a decision on this election that's contrary to yours and whatever names you drop haven't really made an informed decision, huh? Couldn't be a reasoned-out, fretted-over, carefully made decision, could it? Even know which black celebrities are and aren't worth taking advice from, huh? Don't feel bad though - you don't have the sole possession of that self-righteous, tone-deaf condescension. It's shared by a lot of you Bernie bots.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 09:21 pm
@snood,
I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. I give you yours. I have mine.

How about you give me mine?

I know that when I was a kid and a young adult, Glover and Belafonte's political opinions were so far from mine, I couldn't even begin to understand why they thought what they did. It is amazing that now, my opinions flow with theirs.

Make of it what you will.

I'm not seeking a fight with you about this - but I am sincerely amazed that they stand with me. I do wonder how you feel standing with someone who's done so much damage to black Americans...but do as you will.

Because I'll do the same.

https://youtu.be/JACq7Tg-J3M
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2016 10:04 pm
@Lash,
Lash, I'm actually now looking forward to whatever misery you have in store for you these next few months.

Clinton will win the primary (despite all the votes stolen in AZ) and she'll likely win the presidency. That will make you pissed. If she loses to the republican candidate, that will also make you pissed.

Either way, the fact that you'll be pissed either way will make me pretty happy.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 04:21 am
@maporsche,
No, I'm fine but thanks for thinking of me <3
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 06:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Who knows? He really didn't make that clear, did he, since Obama is now in office, not Hillary.

You really didn't go look at his ENTIRE statement, did you?
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  4  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 08:06 am
Quote:
My Progressive Generation,

Listen, I understand why you love Bernie Sanders; I have the same sentiments toward him. He has refreshing viewpoints with which I completely agree. He’s straight-forward, believable and endearing. But the truth, which might be hard to swallow, is that Hillary Clinton has basically clinched the nomination. Based on proportional delegate allocation, it’s going to be practically impossible for Bernie to recover from his current delegate deficit. I love idealism, but I”m also good at math. Polling doesn’t even show him as competitive in many of the states where he could gain on her lead. Upsets similar to Michigan wouldn’t even help, because only landslides are going to net enough delegates to make a dent, and it would take major gains to overcome her massive lead.

I am not asking anyone to stop supporting Bernie or to give up on him. Please continue supporting him, because it helps to pressure the Democratic party to move to the left. If you want to hold out hope throughout the primary, that is totally understandable. My only wish is that you stop demonizing Secretary Clinton. The memes and hashtags and negative propaganda need to stop. This rhetoric is extremely counterproductive, because at this point it doesn’t benefit Sanders as much as it hurts Clinton in the general election.

No matter who wins the Republican nomination (and it’s almost certain to be Donald Trump), they are worlds behind Hillary Clinton. Even Bernie has agreed with that assessment. The GOP candidates are anti-abortion, anti-LGBT rights, and practically anti-everything that progessives value. Maybe Hillary has been against certain things in the past, but much like President Obama, whose positions have also evolved, she has gotten on board with most liberal standpoints over the last 25 years.

The questioning of the sincerity of her gay rights support is one of the things I take issue with the most, and also one of the best examples. I am gay, and even though Hillary previously was against gay marriage, she now supports it. Flip-flop, pandering or genuine evolution, it doesn’t matter anymore as long as she supports us, so I don’t think our allies should judge her for her previous statements. She has actually acted upon her evolved beliefs on numerous occasions, so they are genuine, and we need to accept that she has changed her views. My own family, my boyfriend’s family and the loved ones of many LGBT people that I know have changed their views over the same time period, and I don’t think they’re disingenuous.

It’s is a common story for members of our community that grew up in the 90’s, and anyone that doesn’t fall into that category needs to understand the evolution that we’ve seen — and greatly appreciated — among most of society. Mrs. Clinton is one of those people that has moved forward with society. In the most basic sense, that is progressive, and she is no worse than anyone else that has changed their views. Her push for LGBT rights around the world as Secretary of State has more than made up for any prior lack of support. This one issue should elucidate the point that we can believe her when she changes her viewpoints. Is it really a bad thing to consider new viewpoints in order to side with the majority of those you represent?

While Clinton has changed, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are outwardly against progressive causes. The same goes for most Republicans. The plethora of progressive beliefs with which they disagree or ignore are all issues for which Clinton has expressed support. The fact that Donald Trump wants to deport all undocumented immigrants and ban Muslims from our country should be more than enough reason to do whatever it takes to prevent him from taking office, even if that means voting for someone that you don’t totally support. I’m not even being dramatic when I say that voting for Trump, or a third party, or a write-in, or abstaining from the general election, is essentially a vote against women, Muslims, immigrants and the LGBT community.

It’s not about choosing the lesser of two evils. The policies proposed by Trump are frightening, to say the least, and the worst you can allege about Hillary is that she is is a corporate puppet. But that’s inconsistent with her actions. She actually fought for progressive interests when she was on the Wal-Mart board, for instance, and her vote for bankruptcy reform was mischaracterized in that video we’ve all seen with Elizabeth Warren (who I actually happen to love). Before the vote, Clinton actually advocated for amendments that addressed Warren’s concerns. The same pattern can be seen with President Obama. He took money from Wall Street, but as President, he criticized their actions, and signed into law the most restrictive policies against the financial sector in decades. Meanwhile, the Republicans outwardly side with these interests, which actually garners the donations for them.

I get that it’s not easy to vote for someone that competed against and defeated someone that you wholeheartedly supported. To be honest, I felt the same way about Obama in 2008. Since then, I have seen him support many of the values that I believe in during his time in office. We have made so much progress under Obama, and I firmly believe that you will see the same from Clinton. Don’t reverse it with a Republican. Whether or not you believe that she is truly a progressive, you need to be there for her in November, because she will be there for us for the next 4 years. She may not be perfect, but she’s absolutely going to give this country a better image and a better chance for progress than any Republican out there. So please, let’s stop the divisive rhetoric before it’s too late, because you’re lying to yourself if you think that a Clinton loss will outweigh the negative effects of a Trump presidency.

Yours Truly,

Someone That Doesn’t Want To Watch America Burn


source
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 09:10 am
@Lash,
Quote Lash, to Snood:
Quote:
I do wonder how you feel standing with someone who's done so much damage to black Americans.

Because overall, Bill Clinton didn't do damage to black Americans, quite the opposite. For one thing, crime was spiraling up and out of control before Bill Clinton took office. Under Clinton, within a year the number of black murder victims started declining and continued to go down, down, down.
Black Murder Victims By Year
Under Bush I
1987......8,998
1988......9,956
1989.....10,566
1990.....11,487
1991.....12,227
1992.....11,777

Bill Clinton Takes Office
1993.....12,433
1994.....11,854
1995.....10,442
1996.......9,473
1997.......8,841
1998.......7,933
1999.......7,139
2000.......7,425

Under Bush I's last year murder rate of black victims, there would be 94,216 black people murdered in the years 1993 through 2000. Instead, under Bill Clinton only 75,540 black people were murdered in those years. Bill Clinton's presidency saved over 18,000 black lives.

That's only one reason why the Clintons are so justifiably popular among African American voters.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 09:54 am
it isn’t hard to see why the Vermont senator lost Arizona handily: his core supporters’ ballots weren’t counted.

http://brainsandeggs.blogspot.com/
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 10:55 am
@edgarblythe,
https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/food-drink-grape-sour_grapes-shops-stores-supermarkets-rmo0206_low.jpg

Arizona is a closed primary which means by definition, independent votes don't count in a presidential primary vote.

12:44 p.m. Independent voters showing up polls

Quote:
Complicating the confusion at the polls today is the large number of registered independents who are showing up, leading to a surge in provisional ballots.

“These are independent voters,” Maricopa County Elections Director Karen Osborne said. “They refuse to not vote, and federal law requires they be given a ballot.”

But if the voter casting the provisional ballot is determined to not be registered with one of the three parties, their vote will not count.

“In Coconino County, they’re handing them out like candy,” Osborne said of the provisional ballots.

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 10:57 am
@Blickers,
The crime rate was falling and for a bunch of reasons:

http://freakonomics.com/tag/crime/

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

At the same time crime was falling rates of incarceration for AA went up, and lengths of sentences went up. Private prisons came on line (which ex-President Clinton has admitted was a bad mistake). None of these things would be good for anyone or any group but the weight of it fell on PoC.


0 Replies
 
parados
 
  5  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 11:00 am
@edgarblythe,
If you believe 60,000 people were turned away from the polls in Arizona, you need to rethink your ability to stay in touch with reality.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 11:04 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

If you believe 60,000 people were turned away from the polls in Arizona, you need to rethink your ability to stay in touch with reality.


I mean, I'd think we can at least find out what actually happened before we run with the first conspiracy theory we can catch. The Bernie people are so spring-loaded to claim not just that their man is getting cheated, but if you give 'em a couple of minutes, that Hillary is somehow behind it.

Ed's already saying in so many words that the difference made by whatever this discrepancy in Arizona is, is what cost Bernie the primary. That's kind of hasty, considering the margin of Hillary's victory there.
 

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