80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Fri 8 May, 2015 09:26 am
@parados,
It was the Clinton administration who redefined what a surplus is. Just as they tried to redefine what "is, is". Control the language and you control the debate. It's part and parcel of what the left does, change the meanings of words and their function and you can say anything you like. Borrowing from SS to add it to the budget is the only way a "surplus" was created.
Thomas
 
  2  
Fri 8 May, 2015 09:52 am
@Baldimo,
George said his point was about whether the deficit shrank during the Clinton years. Under what definition of the terms "deficit" and "surplus" did the federal deficit not shrink during the Clinton years?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Fri 8 May, 2015 11:15 am
@Baldimo,
Oh what a bunch of bullshit Baldimo. The Clinton administration didn't redefine anything.

Surplus has ALWAYS been defined as Income - Outlays = a positive number.
Deficit is Income - Outlays = a negative number

By that definition the Income of the Federal government the US Government ran a surplus
Code:
Receipts Outlays Surplus/Deficit
1998 - 1,721,728 1,652,458 69,270

1999 - 1,827,452 1,701,842 125,610


Table 1.1 of the Historical tables of every US Budget since 2000.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2016/assets/hist.pdf

The problem is that SS had a surplus of 99,195 in 1998 so the General fund had to borrow 29,925 from SS to pay for it's shortfall. SS is money the government takes in. It is you that is attempting to redefine "receipt" to not include everything the government receives.

Quote:
Borrowing from SS to add it to the budget is the only way a "surplus" was created.
I would suggest you actually look at the historical table and see when the government started taking in large amounts of money for SS and loaning it to the general fund that wasn't taking in enough. It might open your eyes.
carloslebaron
 
  -1  
Fri 8 May, 2015 11:31 am
"Real surplus" is when the debt decreases and tax payers receive refunds or pay less taxes, BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Otherwise, there is no surplus.

I remember assisting to a meeting that took place in a former girlfriend's city.

One council member was mentioning that he managed to "save money" by doing this and that, and that the city will pay less for this and that contractor services... and he was full of beautiful scenarios of saving money here and there.

At the time of questions, I asked him if those savings mean that tax payers will pay less taxes on the next fiscal year.

He evaded to answer.

No doubt that he was an excellent politician, this is to say, a good corrupt one.
parados
 
  3  
Fri 8 May, 2015 11:35 am
@carloslebaron,
Since you are redefining things as you see fit I wonder if you have defined the neighbor's cow as your girlfriend .
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Fri 8 May, 2015 11:45 am
@parados,
Income is defined as making money on something or from something. SS is not an income. People will earn SS as income, but SS isn't received by the govt as income.
parados
 
  3  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:26 pm
@Baldimo,
FICA is a TAX. The government RECEIVES that tax. Now you are simply arguing that a tax is not income for the government.

This is some simple stuff Baldimo. It is listed as a receipt on the governments accounting as listed in the historical tables I linked to.

Here let me make it simpler for you...
Surplus has ALWAYS been defined as Receipts - Outlays = a positive number.
Deficit is Receipts - Outlays = a negative number
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:40 pm
@parados,
You are trying to attack him with facts, Parados.

Baldimo is a hard-core conservative. Facts mean absolutely nothing to him.

Ya gotta try something else...like, just make stuff up. That's what works for them.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Baldimo is a hard-core conservative. Facts mean absolutely nothing to him.

There you go again, demonizing an entire group no doubt because you are peeved that they dont agree with you.

Grow the **** up. Please.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Baldimo is a hard-core conservative. Facts mean absolutely nothing to him.

There you go again, demonizing an entire group no doubt because you are peeved that they dont agree with you.

Grow the **** up. Please.


Okay...I withdraw the remark, Hawk, because it was snarky...and because you are correct...I was demonizing an entire group because of a snarky comment I wanted to make about one member of that group (although I do not think it was done for the reason you suggested.)

But I acknowledge that you are correct...I was wrong.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:58 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
My point related to the original proposition that started this digression, and that was whether the Federal debt or deficit grew or shrank in a given period.

Okay, if that was your point, then the resolution is easy: Yes, the federal deficit shrank during the presidency of President Clinton, whether you include Social Security or not.

I'm just noticing that George talked about "the debt or deficit", and that I addressed the deficit only. The national debt in the US, over the presidency of Bill Clinton, increased in nominal dollars, roughly held steady after correcting for inflation, and decreased as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product. Because George says he is concerned with the sustainability of deficits, the measure most relevant to his argument is the latter. Even by George's standard, then, Bill Clinton did a good job on the economy and the deficit.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Fri 8 May, 2015 01:59 pm
@parados,
If it is income, then at what rate does the govt pay taxes on it? As far as the IRS is concerned all income is taxed.

I do not believe that taxes are income for the govt, that would mean the govt earned that money and we both know they do not earn anything. They collect taxes, which are not income.
Thomas
 
  3  
Fri 8 May, 2015 02:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
Baldimo is a hard-core conservative. Facts mean absolutely nothing to him.

There you go again, demonizing an entire group

"Demonizing"? Are you saying that facts mean absolutely nothing to demons?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Fri 8 May, 2015 02:57 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
If it is income, then at what rate does the govt pay taxes on it? As far as the IRS is concerned all income is taxed.

Not true. Some income is not taxed; some is even subsidized (if it's eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit).

Baldimo wrote:
I do not believe that taxes are income for the govt, that would mean the govt earned that money

You are implying that all income is earned, which is not true. Even in the private sector, some income does not qualify as earned income.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Fri 8 May, 2015 03:15 pm
@Baldimo,
Oh for fucks sake Baldimo. Go ahead and make an ass of yourself.

Income - money received over a period of time.

Bringing up taxation is idiotic since the Federal government is not a taxable entity even if it does have income. Under US law, individuals and corporations are subject to income tax. Chapter 26 of US Code. The IRS is only concerned with income of taxable entities. It certainly doesn't consider income of non taxable corporations to be income that is taxed. Nor does it tax entities such as cities, counties, states even though they can often receive income other than taxes from lands, buildings and other government owned properties. The Federal government earns money from oil leases on government properties that if it was a private concern would require income tax be paid.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Fri 8 May, 2015 03:20 pm
@Baldimo,
The simple fact of the matter is that the US Government had a surplus for 4 years under Clinton. That means they took in more money from all the different sources compared to the money the spent.

One of the issues is that all excess SS money is by law invested in Treasuries. That means that even if the government is running a surplus it still has to take that money and pay interest on it which makes it a debt. Unless the government is paying down it's private debt at a rate to offset the increase in debt from SS invested in Treasuries the debt will go up.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Fri 8 May, 2015 03:29 pm
I dare guess that if there were a Republican president and a surplus rather than deficit...guys like Baldimo would be proclaiming it in bold font!

If Reagan had done it...rather than tripling the national debt with his deficits...the conservatives would mention it in damn near every post. Same with Bush I and Bush II.

But they didn't.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Fri 8 May, 2015 09:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I dont know if this is the place to post this but the Bush running for president said he gits all his information about the middle east and Israel from George Bush II. If you want another economic crash and two wars that last 14 years and cost trillions than vote for another Bush.
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  -1  
Sat 9 May, 2015 08:24 am
@parados,
Quote:
Since you are redefining things as you see fit I wonder if you have defined the neighbor's cow as your girlfriend .


Well, by the way you have learned to define things, you are defining the neighbor's bull as your girlfriend.

You better sue your teachers because they have taught you wrong about reality.
carloslebaron
 
  -1  
Sat 9 May, 2015 08:43 am
@parados,
Quote:
The simple fact of the matter is that the US Government had a surplus for 4 years under Clinton. That means they took in more money from all the different sources compared to the money the spent.

One of the issues is that all excess SS money is by law invested in Treasuries. That means that even if the government is running a surplus it still has to take that money and pay interest on it which makes it a debt. Unless the government is paying down it's private debt at a rate to offset the increase in debt from SS invested in Treasuries the debt will go up.


There is existence of "surplus" when something remains above what is used or needed, not when you find other sources to fill up what is needed.

The chart posted before shows that the national debt continued with the same average rate under the Clinton's administration.

For this reason I mentioned my question to the council member (from another message of mine) where the "saved money" he was preaching will go.

In paper you can demonstrate any crap you want to show, but in reality the assumed surplus should have had a great economic impact with the national debt, because using the surplus to be sent to the same hole of spending it somewhere else, then you have not surplus but just changing of the way to over spend the money, that's all.

Using the head of a family (The US) abusing credit cards (politicians selling the country), and finally making good income because the wife became a prostitute (Clinton's era), and instead of paying the debt with that extra income, the head of the house used the money to apply for more credit cards and keep spending in several pair of shoes, diamond rings, posters of Madonna,...

Come on, the chart is not lying, the national debt continued the same trend under Clinton's administration, this is to say, the assumed surplus probably was two bucks or, as usual, disappeared in the hands of politic magicians.
 

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