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Book: 'Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man'

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 12:21 pm
I did make a general statement that there are exceptions to but the are few. There are friends and relatives I have who could be called wealthy but not fabulously wealthy who are liberals. None of them are heirs, however. My one lifelong friend who is a billionaire is a Republican and we get along fine as I am more conservative on money and he is more liberal on social issues.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 12:24 pm
Let's just get together and rent Spinal Tap.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 12:36 pm
I resent those who enjoy financial success while i don't . . . but i really get honked off by successful people who don't agree with my sage opinions . . .
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 04:37 pm
Is that a link to your sage opinions, Setanta.
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tony2481
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 05:17 pm
Why doesn't Michael Moore move to France...Oh yeah, he only dislikes capitalism when he isn't making all the money. He couldn't come close to clearing the money he makes here anywhere else. If he really wanted to lay his principals on the table he should be gifting every dime he makes to the "economicly less fortunate" and keeping no more than $35k per year. I don't think a cold day in hell would bring that day.
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 05:35 pm
St. Francis of Assisi he is not.
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Mr Stillwater
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 06:40 pm
Reality check Guys!!

Latest film (and previous book) is not about the flaws of capitalism or Moore's problem in coming to terms with his pesonal wealth. It's about the War President and how when things get a little too close to home, ol' Georgie-boy just finds a reason to bomb the crap out of some rag-heads whilst being a blatantly obvious asset to the Saudi royal family. Eye on the ball here! The message is 'some white guys are worse than others, and some are just plain evil'.
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nimh
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 07:09 pm
McGentrix wrote:
nimh wrote:
He's an idealist, yeah - and he already expresses that by spending all his time and effort on politics and idealistically motivated documentaries. I mean, whether you agree with them or not, thats what he does. And thats already more than most do. He has no "task" to live in poverty, like Rick said, just cause he's an idealist.

Isn't that one of the liberal commandments though? That the wealthy should be stripped of their wealth to be given to the needy? Has that changed all the sudden because one of your own is fluanting his wealth?

I assume he pays his taxes. I assume that, as a good lefty, he wouldn't object to any hefty rise in his taxes to pay for more and better health care, social security, etc. But as LW pointed out, St. Francis of Assisi he is not and need not be. That shouldnt be so hard a distinction to grasp, should it?
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nimh
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 07:34 pm
JustanObserver wrote:
For those interested in Moore's response to people who say "Columbine" is full of lies:

Click here:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/


Thanks.

For those who dont feel like cutting through Moore's rather verbose, pompous prose, here's his rebuttals to three of the specific allegations the unsigned Newsmax piece that McGentrix posted made about Bowling for ...:

McGentrix wrote:
# Moore claims that National Rifle Association taunted the Denver area and the nation by holding "a large pro-gun rally" only days after the killings at Columbine High School.

In reality, the annual meeting had been planned well in advance, was required by law, could not have been changed in time to another city, and was stripped of all rallies and ceremony in deference to the community.

# The movie depicts Charlton Heston as making his famous "cold, dead hands speech" in Denver.

In reality, the remarks came a year later in Charlotte, N.C., and Moore spliced bits of footage from that and another speech for maximum distortion. "It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things," Hardy and Clarke write.


Moore:

Quote:
The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word - read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.

Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? You'd think they would be proud of the things he said. Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up.

As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image - hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?


McGentrix wrote:
You hear that a factory is making weapons of mass destruction - actually, it's building satellite launch platforms.


Moore:

Quote:
That's right! That big honkin' rocket sitting behind the Lockheed spokesman in "Bowling for Columbine"-- the one with "US AIRFORCE" written on it in BIG ASS letters - well, I admit it, I snuck in and painted that on that Titan IV rocket when Lockheed wasn't looking! After all, those rockets were only being used for the Weather Channel! Ha Ha Ha! I sure fooled everyone!!

Or....

The Truth: Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet Union; in the mid-80s, they were partially assembling MX missiles, instruments for the minuteman ICBM, a space laser weapon called Zenith Star, and a Star Wars program known as Brilliant Pebbles.

In the full, unedited interview I did with the Lockheed spokesman, he told me that Lockheed started building nuclear missiles in Littleton and "played a role in the development of Peacekeeper MX Missiles."

As for what's currently manufactured in Littleton, McCollum told me, "They (the rockets sitting behind him) carry mainly very large national security satellites, some we can't talk about." (see him say it here)

Since that interview, the Titan IV rockets manufactured in Littleton have been critical to the war effort in both Afghanistan and Iraq. These rockets launched advanced satellites that were "instrumental in providing command-and-control operations over Iraq...for the rapid targeting of Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles involved in Iraqi strikes and clandestine communications with Special Operations Forces." (view source here).



These ones are not countered on this (particular) Moore page:

McGentrix wrote:
# The fantasy film claims that Heston exploited a school shooting in Mount Morris, Mich., by staging another "big pro-gun rally" in October 2002.

In reality, Heston's appearance came eight months after the shooting, at a get-out-the-vote event in nearby Flint. Others campaigning in the area around that time included Al Gore, George W. Bush … and Moore himself, touting Ralph Nader.


McGentrix wrote:
You watch a Bush-Quayle campaign ad, but in reality it was an ad Moore himself assembled."
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 11:56 pm
I also don't believe Moore is going to offer himself up as St. Sebastian either although he does have quite a bevy of arrows headed his way. He stand for what he stand for and has made a fine film which looks like it will do well at the box office. Well, not as well as Gibson's "Passion" -- and he's already promised to give everything to Jesus.
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:00 am
Politics continues to be so fickle -- it has always been, "who do you trust," and the answer is do not trust any of them explicitly. Question their motives unless you are in love with them (well, now, isn't that a different story).
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the reincarnation of suzy
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:18 am
Nimh and JustanObserver, Thanks for that! Interesting!
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Wilso
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:32 am
Conservatives really do despise the truths that won't fit their view of the world.
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Rick d Israeli
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 03:20 am
Thanks for the sort of summary nimh, personally I found the article too long to read.
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Mr Stillwater
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 03:33 am
I really think that the 'passion' (if you will) of Mike Moore is to get the half of the American public WHO DO NOT BOTHER TO VOTE interested in the process. This is one of the great themes of his work - not that the 'other' side is all-powerful, but that they would have to take notice of ordinary people if those people took up their constitutional right to get involved.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 06:43 am
Wilso wrote:
Conservatives really do despise the truths that won't fit their view of the world.


Especially when that truth turns out to be lies.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 06:47 am
You done exactly what you're always accusing others of. Offering opinions with no proof whatsoever. But that's the sort of tripe we've come to expect from you.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 06:47 am
Especially when we all fall back on the stereotypes both parties, Left and Right, have about each other.

Rolling Eyes
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 07:03 am
Wilso wrote:
You done exactly what you're always accusing others of. Offering opinions with no proof whatsoever. But that's the sort of tripe we've come to expect from you.


You're kidding with this, right? Read teh first post on this thread. It demonstrates the level of "truth" that Moore distributes.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 09:20 am
McGentrix wrote:
You're kidding with this, right? Read teh first post on this thread. It demonstrates the level of "truth" that Moore distributes.


You're kidding with this, right? Ehm, HELLO ... in the post just above, you'll find a bunch of rebuttals to your post's "revelations". It seems like at the very least, that first post on this thread itself dabbles in a "truth" at least as dilettantly as Moore himself - so what's that supposed to "demonstrate"? Or do you have any rebuttals to the rebuttals?
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