2
   

VICIOUS, BLOODTHIRSTY BASTARDS

 
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:00 am
Sigh. Confused
I guess it's all in the way one sees things.
I don't see that as trying to block anything, rather trying to insert some common sense and fiscal responsibility into the equation. You may have forgotten over the past few years, but we can have it both ways!
Bush was remiss here. Simple as that.
Have you read my posts in their entirety?

I just can't understand how a reasonably bright person could disagree and/or not understand what's actually gone on here! Rolling Eyes
I don't mean that to be insulting. I just can't fathom it.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:31 am
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Sigh. Confused
I guess it's all in the way one sees things.
I don't see that as trying to block anything, rather trying to insert some common sense and fiscal responsibility into the equation. You may have forgotten over the past few years, but we can have it both ways!
Forgotten? Perhaps you are older than I am. I recall no period in my adult life where I had reasonable choice including a 2-party candidate that offered fiscal responsibility and common sense. Ross Perot would have been that guy, but as hard as I tried, I couldn't get him elected. Crying or Very sad

the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Bush was remiss here. Simple as that.
Have you read my posts in their entirety?
Yep. I wouldn't usually comment otherwise.

the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
I just can't understand how a reasonably bright person could disagree and/or not understand what's actually gone on here! Rolling Eyes
I don't mean that to be insulting. I just can't fathom it.
I have those same thoughts every day of my life. It truly fascinates me that I can see an argument as bulletproof, and then someone else, whom I do respect, will pass it off as so much nonsense.

I can tell you one place we differ. I don't force myself to like one of the choices. I think Bush is a dimwit. If it wasn't for his aggressive response to 9-11, AND his decision to finally remove Saddam, I'd be voting 3rd party (again) to continue to demonstrate my dissatisfaction with my choices. Nader got my vote last time because both Bush and Gore struck me as posers. You can definitely add Kerry to that list.
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:33 am
You equate Ross Perot with common sense. Alrighty then! Smile
Wasn't there some interesting stuff about his paranoia in the news?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:47 am
Tons of it darlin. That's why he wasn't President.
That's also why there is still a deficit. Idea
You probably never even heard that issue until he brought it up.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 09:13 am
Just to stick my two cents in here, I think the only reason Perot didn't have a chance in hell is because he wasn't good at presenting a phony high-gloss TV image. Our election process grows more and more perverse.
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 09:27 am
Bill; Never heard the term deficit before? No. It wasn't new. I heard of it during Reagan's reign too.
You're probably right, Kicky. Seems a president has to be tall and somewhat handsome nowadays to have a shot. Not right or fair.
I liked Perot too, for a little while. I liked how he tried to use plain talk to make his points. I also liked Dean. I don't really like Bush, don't trust him, but I did give him a chance, in spite of everything. As far as I'm concerned, he has failed me and the country.
I don't force myself to like the choices either, Bill, but again, to me it's a matter of common sense and the common good. Plus, Kerry has been my senator for most of my life, and he's done alright by me most of the time. Now that I've recently moved, I have a new senator whose gonna kick butt one day! I wrote and introduced myself, (just a little warning to let him know I'm a rabble-rouser) and like a good senator, he responded personally to me. I love living in MA!
But back to the subject, I don't think it's prudent to respond to vicious bloodthirsty bastards with vicious bloodthirsty tactics, because I think that backfires. We are better than that, and I'd like to continue believing we are. I don't knw what-all we can do, but that's not my job, thankfully. I do know that there are better minds than mine that are capable of doing what's right, and at the moment I put my faith in that on Kerry. It seems to me that Bush has failed in this regard.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 09:55 am
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
But back to the subject, I don't think it's prudent to respond to vicious bloodthirsty bastards with vicious bloodthirsty tactics, because I think that backfires.
And therein lies the fundamental, irreconcilable difference between our viewpoints.

I believe vicious bloodthirsty bastards should be met an overwhelmingly violent response. There should be NO QUARTER for rapists, child molesters and murderers and regimes that endorse such tactics need to be destroyed. Zero tolerance! Every terrorist everywhere should KNOW that as soon as they commit an act of terrorism; no force from heaven or earth will be able to protect them. EVERY terrorist should know that every terrorist mission is a suicide missionÂ… for everyone in the organization from top to bottom. Members of terrorist groups can turn themselves in for leniency or die. NO other option should exist once their group commits a terrorist action. NO QUARTER!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 10:09 am
For every terrorist you stomp down with your Big Boot of Democracy, Bill, two more will pop up.

Extremely violent responses on our part will lead to extremely violent responses on their part as well... and we are a much bigger target than they are.

Perhaps we should, I don't know, do two things at once: try to stop terrorism by going after known terrorists, and trying to figure out what WE are doing to encourage all this hate towards us. To imagine that the US is not at all responsible for the events that are taking place today would be folly.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 10:24 am
So are we the Hatfields or the McCoys?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 10:28 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
To imagine that the US is not at all responsible for the events that are taking place today would be folly.
I imagine no such thing. You'll be happy to learn I also desire a global free-trade agreement (without all the exceptions), and wholehearted believe it criminal that their exist communities with insufficient food supplies. I only hold the hammer in one hand; the other is busy passing out food and copies of Atlas Shrugged for everyone!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 10:40 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I only hold the hammer in one hand; the other is busy passing out food and copies of Atlas Shrugged for everyone!

You are a true humanitarian. I'm sure the underprivileged will not only welcome the food, but they'll appreciate "Atlas Shrugged" both for its absorbency and its spring-fresh scent.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 10:49 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
For every terrorist you stomp down with your Big Boot of Democracy, Bill, two more will pop up.


Again the Hydra myth. This is a nonsensical argument adopted, with vigor, by the Left.

The number of terrorists is, clearly, finite. Otherwise, all of the predictions that that the "Arab Street" will rise in response to invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq would have credibility.

The notion that we cannot respond with violence because it will beget violence is simply idiotic. If there are people in the world who would advance their political ideology by beheading innocents, only an idiot would argue that to try and kill such people will result in more beheadings.

Such idiots never seem to have an answer to the question: "What is the proper response of a civilized nation to barbaric actions?" All they can spout is "No violence, no matter what."

This would be perfectly acceptable if they accepted death or enslavement rather then perpetrating violence, but they don't. As long as someone else is willing to sacrifice their lives and limbs for these idiots, they are free to spew there nonsense about non-violence.

This is the beauty of our nation, but it does not impart any nobility, let alone common sense, to the idiots that rant from an elevated position that has no connection to the real world.

I'm sorry if the A2K community objects to my characterization of fellow contributors as idiots. In fact, "idiots" is probably not the proper descriptive term to use, but it is sufficient to register my regard.





]
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 12:13 am
First of all Finn, why do you feel the need to lie?
I don't know where you got your quote ""No violence, no matter what." Not one post here says that. This is a perfectly rational discussion and you can dismiss it, making up quotes and calling everyone idiots if you like, or you can try to address the issue honestly.
It is not necessary (hold onto your hat) to attempt to smear your perceived "enemies" when you could offer up a logical argument instead. Perhaps one you put some thought into.
You say "If there are people in the world who would advance their political ideology by beheading innocents, only an idiot would argue that to try and kill such people will result in more beheadings." Well, Finn, nobody said we shouldn't kill those perpetrators, either! I don't think we're specifically targeting those people. We've brought war to an entire country who wasn't beheading Americans, instead of bringing down the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. So what did we get? More people we have to kill. Which will get us more people we have to kill. And of course, more dead American soldiers and innocent civilians from all sides. We need to target those people specifically and then work toward making the rest of the people understand that we don't plan to rain eternal war on them, but want to simply end terrorist activity and move on, preferrably as allies against terror. The notion that we cannot respond with violence because it will beget violence is simply idiotic. Nobody is saying anything as simplistic as that, either! What is being argued is that, so far, this war on terror has killed many many innocent Iraqis, and inflamed many to become terrorists as a result.
They want vengeance for the death and/or torture of innocents, just as we do. To sink to the level of terrorists makes us no better than terrorists. We have tortured soldiers. Not terrorists, but soldiers. With tactics like these, we can't claim the moral side of righteousness to the people of Iraq. These are their friends and neighbors and family members, and we treated them like animals. Terrorists in the area have used this fact to incite others of their countrymen against us. They're not going to just stop. While their numbers are not infinite, they are certainly capable of continued long-term growth, and who the hell wants that? While never-ending war in the Middle East might be attractive to some, others of us abhor the idea and realize that some common sense is needed here to get things moving in the right path. We can't just kill everyone. And thanks anyway, but most Americans don't want to become a nation that inflicts terror upon others.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 07:31 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
First of all Finn, why do you feel the need to lie?
I don't know where you got your quote ""No violence, no matter what." Not one post here says that. This is a perfectly rational discussion and you can dismiss it, making up quotes and calling everyone idiots if you like, or you can try to address the issue honestly.
It is not necessary (hold onto your hat) to attempt to smear your perceived "enemies" when you could offer up a logical argument instead. Perhaps one you put some thought into.
You say "If there are people in the world who would advance their political ideology by beheading innocents, only an idiot would argue that to try and kill such people will result in more beheadings." Well, Finn, nobody said we shouldn't kill those perpetrators, either! I don't think we're specifically targeting those people. We've brought war to an entire country who wasn't beheading Americans, instead of bringing down the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. So what did we get? More people we have to kill. Which will get us more people we have to kill. And of course, more dead American soldiers and innocent civilians from all sides. We need to target those people specifically and then work toward making the rest of the people understand that we don't plan to rain eternal war on them, but want to simply end terrorist activity and move on, preferrably as allies against terror. The notion that we cannot respond with violence because it will beget violence is simply idiotic. Nobody is saying anything as simplistic as that, either! What is being argued is that, so far, this war on terror has killed many many innocent Iraqis, and inflamed many to become terrorists as a result.
They want vengeance for the death and/or torture of innocents, just as we do. To sink to the level of terrorists makes us no better than terrorists. We have tortured soldiers. Not terrorists, but soldiers. With tactics like these, we can't claim the moral side of righteousness to the people of Iraq. These are their friends and neighbors and family members, and we treated them like animals. Terrorists in the area have used this fact to incite others of their countrymen against us. They're not going to just stop. While their numbers are not infinite, they are certainly capable of continued long-term growth, and who the hell wants that? While never-ending war in the Middle East might be attractive to some, others of us abhor the idea and realize that some common sense is needed here to get things moving in the right path. We can't just kill everyone. And thanks anyway, but most Americans don't want to become a nation that inflicts terror upon others.


Suzy

"No violence, no matter what" was not intended as an actual quote of anyone on this thread. I would have thought this was obvious, but I guess not. It was meant to represent the argument associated with the terrorists as Hydra allusion.

If you chose to identify yourself as one of the "idiots" to which I referred, be my guest, but I made no such assignment. It might also help, in the future, if you spoke for yourself rather than all A2K posters.

The argument that terrorists are part of a Hydra is very much an argument that they not be killed. It certainly isn't a mere observation.
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 08:34 pm
"The argument that terrorists are part of a Hydra is very much an argument that they not be killed."

No, it certainly isn't. You're being obtuse, and it's stupid. But I won't call you an idiot because that would be beneath me. I'm not speaking for everybody nor do I claim to be.

So aside from that?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 10:02 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
"The argument that terrorists are part of a Hydra is very much an argument that they not be killed."

No, it certainly isn't. You're being obtuse, and it's stupid.


I suppose obtuse is in the mind of the idiot, but I will attempt to be more pointed:

If one believes that every time a terrorist is killed, anywhere from two to seven new ones take their place (Seven is the number of the Hydra) then it follows that it doesn't make much sense to kill a terrorist, unless one is in favor of an ever increasing enemy.

If this remains an obtuse notion for you, I'm afraid I can be no clearer.

suzie wrote:
But I won't call you an idiot because that would be beneath me.


Just another difference between you and I. I attempt to refrain from calling others idiots because it is usually uncalled for, not because I have such a lofty sense of myself that I consider it beneath me. Presumably, it is not beneath you to call someone a liar. Not that I take particular umbrage at your calling me a liar, I'm just interested in what might be above and beneath you.


suzie wrote:
I'm not speaking for everybody nor do I claim to be.


"Finn, nobody said we shouldn't kill those perpetrators, either!"

"Nobody is saying anything as simplistic as that, either! What is being argued is that, so far, this war on terror has killed many many innocent Iraqis, and inflamed many to become terrorists as a result. "

"While never-ending war in the Middle East might be attractive to some, others of us abhor the idea and realize that some common sense is needed here to get things moving in the right path."


suzie wrote:
So aside from that?


Now who is being obtuse?
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 10:40 pm
Ridiculous, Finn!
I called you a liar because you lied. Or should I say misrepresented the truth?
I have a sense of decorum and if I feel like I need to call you an idiot, I will attempt to do so in private.
Pointing out to you that nobody said what you alleged is not really speaking for others, I don't think!
My last comment is asking you if you intend to address anything I said, because you pretty much glossed over almost everything that wasn't about you! I thought I made some good points that I'd like to see addressed, but you skipped most of those!
You do like to argue though, don't you?
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 10:48 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:

You do like to argue though, don't you?


Oh, come on suzy! So do you! :wink:
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 10:56 pm
I sure do.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jun, 2004 11:11 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Ridiculous, Finn!
I called you a liar because you lied. Or should I say misrepresented the truth?


No, you called me a liar because you didn't have the wit to realize I wasn't quoting anyone on this thread.

Quote:
I have a sense of decorum and if I feel like I need to call you an idiot, I will attempt to do so in private.


Well, you said it was beneath you, not I.

Quote:
Pointing out to you that nobody said what you alleged is not really speaking for others, I don't think![/[/b]quote]

You at least have the last part of this sentence correct.

[quote]My last comment is asking you if you intend to address anything I said, because you pretty much glossed over almost everything that wasn't about you! I thought I made some good points that I'd like to see addressed, but you skipped most of those!


I'm afraid you didn't...make some good points worth addressing.

Quote:
You do like to argue though, don't you?


Yes, but as far as arguing with you goes, its become tiresome, and so to quote an illustrious A2Ker: "Yeah, whatever."
0 Replies
 
 

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