Alcohol vs. Pot

ossobuco wrote:

but I have sympathy for your attraction to life being not all about money. Too much sympathy, I should have paid more attention to it earlier, if only to be able to subtract it as a concern.

O

Not sure I'm completely understanding you here. Are you saying you wish you would have focused on money a little more so you wouldn't have to be concerned with it now?

If so, I think I know what you mean. My deal was, though: I knew I should probably focus more on money in my 20s and 30s. But I always had the feeling I'd probably die at about 35. And then, my whole life would been a focus on money, and I didn't want that.

How does that saying go?
"The only thing that having a lot of money gives you is you no longer have to think about money." ironic

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I didn't care about money, I cared about doing something interesting, and perhaps marrying someone interesting, and I thought, first, when I was quite young, that interesting meant being in medical research or maybe being a writer, something making a difference. Heh, I still think med research and writing are interesting. I was raised in a strange little family with my father having high level jobs with a natural endpoint - I'd explain, but that's a tangent - and also some high level jobs followed by long unemployment. So, I had lived for a fairly short but memorable time in upper middle class status and for much longer without a quarter in my pocket. I only went to college because 'back in the old days', there was no tuition at the California universities.

I ended up marrying a playright-then-screenwriter, and I kept working and bringing in income and he kept almost making it, in actuality getting very close to having Paramount do his script, and so on. He did work through part of the marriage and did pay our bills at some point, but it didn't balance out, and we had no savings. At divorce, we just did it ourselves, he took his small but not nothing inheritance (which is legally his anyway) and I took the house and we are still friends. But I am older now, sans money. Would I do that differently? No, the only thing I'd do differently is have divorced earlier (I was reluctant), re getting started on a new life, and I would have bought property instead of cars.

My bias was that business as a way of life wasn't interesting.
I have modified that. I am still not all that interested in business as such, but I think business smarts can be applied to any endeavor with good use.

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Rick d'Israeli wrote:

Certain values: yes. Though I do believe that other ideas have evolved because of the '60's (a lot of taboos were broken, like the taboos concerning sex and drugs); I praise the '60's for that. You can not blame the hippies though for the unrespectful society that occurred years later. Yes, they did spread the ideas you should do the things YOU liked. But this was in a positive way. Only when these ideas got mixed by conservative ideas (this is not an attempt to discredit conservative thinking though) did this 'way of thinking' evolve.

I learned this at school.

Blame my teacher if you like.

What taboos were those? Rolling Eyes

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ossobuco wrote:

Oh, and yes, apparently chocolate milk can kill, at least I have some saved links re milk drinking and breast cancer among post menopausal women.

Ah, what the hell.

For some folks, chocolate is a powerful depressant. Cool

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Osso,

Thanks for sharing with us - wow, what a story. Smile

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Miller wrote:

What taboos were those?

Sexual freedom for women, homosexuality, the idea that sex can be for pleasure and should not only have the purpose to create children. Concerning drugs: that drugs can be entertainment, that (soft)drugs are in essence no more dangerous than tobacco.

Miller wrote:

I am not a conservative but I think that is too easy a shot.

Could be too easy. During Dutch classes though we got a text, which we had to summarize, in which a respected historian pointed out that hippie ideas were mixed with conservative ideas in the late 70's / starting 80's, which caused a shift in the average mentality; the message was 'think more about yourself, do what you want to do (and don't mind with others as they should not mind with you)'. This applies to Dutch society though. And indeed the question could remain: in what part do both the hippie ideas and the conservative ideas have an influence on this? Point is that I find it hard to explain in English.

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It's called the "Me Generation." I wouldn't blame it on conservative ideology, but on plain old greed and hedonism. Even with sex and drugs, eventually you want a nice couch.

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It was Osso who said that, and I agree with Pdog.

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I was thinking about a cousin of mine who became a mumbling idiot as he got older. He could barely make sensible sentences. He always smoked a LOT of pot, and my dad used to tell me that the pot had fried his brain. I know he did a lot of other drugs too, and it seems to me that Cheech from Cheech and Chong is fairly articulate and can communicate like a normal person.

Does anyone know if this "fried brain" syndrome would happen to anyone who smoked so much pot? Or if it is just something that might happen to someone who is genetically or psychologically pre-disposed to it? Or could it be caused by other drugs that are taken in conjunction with pot? Anyone? Anyone?

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kickycan wrote:

I was thinking about a cousin of mine who became a mumbling idiot as he got older. He could barely make sensible sentences. He always smoked a LOT of pot, and my dad used to tell me that the pot had fried his brain. I know he did a lot of other drugs too, and it seems to me that Cheech from Cheech and Chong is fairly articulate and can communicate like a normal person.

Does anyone know if this "fried brain" syndrome would happen to anyone who smoked so much pot? Or if it is just something that might happen to someone who is genetically or psychologically pre-disposed to it? Or could it be caused by other drugs that are taken in conjunction with pot? Anyone? Anyone?

Kickycan,

I think it depends on how much pot & for how long. If it is heavy use for years, I definitely think this fried brain syndrome can happen to anyone. I don't have stats. but I grew up in an area of California where there a lot of heavy users. A lot of these heavy users were fried by the time they were 25, and I believe it was mostly from pot. But we're talking getting stoned every day for 5 years or more.

Again, I don't have stats so someone here will probably call me on it. But just from personal experiences, seeing my close friends get fried again and again...I believe the fried brain syndrome from pot is real. As you say, some are more prone to it than others.

Maybe its like some people more easily become alcoholics than others.

Definitely, other drugs combined with pot will speed up the process.

For example, I had one friend who smoked pot regularly. Didn't seem to affect too badly for some years. But then he ate some magic mushrooms. After ONE trip, he never was quite the same again. Just flipped out. He spent about a year in a mental institution, then committed suicide. Spooky.

I had grown up with this guy. That scared me straight, from the heavy stuff, at least. It made me take all this much more seriously than I had prior. He started with pot, graduated to mushrooms, and died, real fast. (but that is another thread).

I think strong pot, used for years heavily, can do the job by itself. No stats...just my opinion, based on human observation. (flames begin).

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I have the very same question. You guys are right across the board you cant generalize how alcohol and weed affect people. But i have never seen anyone get high and be anything as devestating as getting drunk can be. I think it is a truly unanswerable question

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Friends of my sister once used 'Magic Mushrooms'. They were convinced a dog that walked by was a goat, and they couldn't stop laughing. Weird. Anyway, though, they did not get any lasting damage from that 'trip'. The drugs you should look out for are mostly harddrugs (cocaine etc.) and XTC. The last couple of years a number of people here died because they had used XTC which contained rat poison.

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Rick d'Israeli wrote:

Friends of my sister once used 'Magic Mushrooms'. They were convinced a dog that walked by was a goat, and they couldn't stop laughing. Weird. Anyway, though, they did not get any lasting damage from that 'trip'.

Although I never tried magic 'Magic Mushrooms' myself, I knew people who did. Apparently they were not palatable for human consumption and could bring on an upset stomach soon after ingesting them. An old friend of mine said he got so ill that he had to vomit in the toilet. When he did, all that flowed from his mouth was a never ending chain of beautiful and colorful flowers. Smile

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colorbook wrote:

When he did, all that flowed from his mouth was a never ending chain of beautiful and colorful flowers.

:wink: So they were useful after all.

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A friend of a friend -- not something I only heard about, just someone I wouldn't consider a friend of mine -- pissed her pants on her couch, crapped all over her bathroom, then later crapped the bed and did some fingerpainting on the wall on shrooms. I blame a mammoth dose: she and her roommates had made a blended shake with the mushrooms (they taste terrible), and she drank from the bottom of the blender. Nobody else got much of an effect at all.

I've done shrooms a ton of times myself, with nothing but good experiences, but I've never eaten more than a sixteenth of an ounce at a time. I've never found LSD as pleasant -- never had a bad trip, just a few experiences with other people that were a little off. My wife's cousin is in and out of mental institutions these days after a really heavy trip, but he had a lot of issues going into it and probably needed help already. I smoked pot pretty much daily from the early '91 until about '95 or '96 or so, with no bad experiences beyond a bit of antisocial paranoia that I have when I'm straight, too.

Alcohol, on the other hand -- alcohol has reduced me to a pained, puking, shitting mess on a number of occasions, has led me to do some truly stupid things, to put my dick in some questionable places, and to generally make an ass of myself. Of the stuff I've played with regularly, I think booze is the most likely to help me harm myself and/or others.

Just my own experiences.

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Good point patiodog. In a comparison, for one usage, between pot and alcohol, there are about a million times as many stories of people hurting themselves or others, or killing themselves or others, with alcohol than with pot.

And about that fried brain syndrome. I think it's much rarer than extra medium thinks, but I do think it can happen. And what about Rastafarians? Are they all burned out dullards? I don't think so.

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I loved those autobiographical pieces by Ash and Osso. My God, Ash. You are a walking museum piece. I lived in the Hollywood area during those same years. I'm glad I only visited San Fransisco. But drugs were a definite part of the culture as were the wonderful coffee houses where I enjoyed more intellectual interactions than I ever had at the universities where I worked. You know, one of the things I love about these many hours on A2K and Abuzz is the way they remind me of those "hippie" days. I spent years at the Epicurian coffee house and Barney's Beanery. Sigh, how fast the years have passed.

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I remember both those names, the Epicurian and Barney's Beanery, think I was at Barney's once, perhaps around '65?

Damn, we could have met and talked earlier.

I dated a fellow who was a math/music/philosophy enthusiuast over several years, though various matters intervened, and for a while he and some folks had a pad, thinking, thinking, where was it.. off of Fairfax. One of his friends was friends with Dave Crosby, and so what, but I mention that to set the place. That friend, who I barely remember, as that was when I was too straight, me thinks, and we went separate ways... but anyway, that friend used to hang out at Barney's. Hmmm.

Speaking of too straight, on one of my dates with my then, well, date, I wore a camelhair wool dress with. uh, a leatherette collar, kind of a nehru collar, and let me guess, sort of dressy flats. Maybe it was '66. I was in my early transition to jeans as a way of life. But, boy did I not fit in in that flat, heh.

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I used to go to the Beanery after spending a few hours most nights at Smitty's Epicurian, across the street from Hollywood High School.It was a bona fide rut, between graduate schools, but it gave me a combination of social and intellectual adventure and the stability of a routine--this was after my divorce (from the woman who is now, again, my dear wife). For a year I was the director of the downtown (fifth and Main sts) USO. After closing the club, each night I went home to shower and change and then to Smitty's. I met a lot of people there. I've lost track of all of them. Sigh, again.
Hmmm, this is the autobiography thread.

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I think our years crisscrossed, as to Barney's.

Me, I am off on trying to remember m'friend's friend's name.

Whatever. JL, you are what, seven years older than me? and I am seven years older than whole bunches on awk.

We are not all so far apart.

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Alcohol vs. Pot

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