45
   

Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

 
 
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 11:42 am
@maporsche,
Spoken like a true socialist/communist. Marx would be proud of you:
Quote:
“The saving of labour time [is] equal to an increase of free time, i.e. time for the full development of the individual, which in turn reacts back upon the productive power of labour as itself the greatest productive power. From the standpoint of the direct production process it can be regarded as the production of fixed capital, this fixed capital being man himself. It goes without saying, by the way, that direct labour time itself cannot remain in the abstract antithesis to free time in which it appears from the perspective of bourgeois economy… Free time – which is both idle time and time for higher activity – has naturally transformed its possessor into a different subject, and he then enters into the direct production process as this different subject. This process is then both discipline, as regards the human being in the process of becoming; and, at the same time, practice [Ausübung], experimental science, materially creative and objectifying science, as regards the human being who has become, in whose head exists the accumulated knowledge of society.”


maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 11:52 am
@Baldimo,
I do, in fact, prefer a capitalist society over communism.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:09 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Spoken like a true socialist/communist. Marx would be proud of you
So, in your opinion, Grundrisse der Kritik der Politischen Ökonomie ("Fundamentals of Political Economy Criticism") is something that is an important part of Socialism and Communism?
Any idea, why it was published for the first time only 82 years after it was written?
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Where speeches and lectures not made by Marx? I can't help it, if someone uses Marx words as a want for the US system. I'll call them as I see them, socialists and communists.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:31 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
You sound like one of those people who were upset the car was going to replace the horse and all the jobs that came from horses being the primary source of travel.

I've never met any of those people; where'd you run into them?
Quote:
Where Obama couldn't rule by legislation, he ruled by regulation, and in many cases, he only did what he did for his voting base and nothing more.

Yeah sure, laugh all you want. Thing is, industrial pollution, smog caused by automobile exhaust, mine tailings, coal ash, hog manure lagoons, environmental lead, etc all represent serious threats to people and end up costing the economy millions because of health care costs, loss of productivity, and cleaning up after toxic spills on land and water. We know that waste products of industrial production incur costs to society long after they've been released into the environment. Why should people pay the price in poor health and costly amelioration while polluting corporations are allowed and encouraged to make maximum profits by ignoring the effects of waste downstream?

78 Environmental Rules on the Way Out Under Trump
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:35 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Thing is, industrial pollution, smog caused by automobile exhaust, mine tailings, coal ash, hog manure lagoons, environmental lead, etc all represent serious threats to people and end up costing the economy millions because of health care costs, loss of productivity, and cleaning up after toxic spills on land and water.

Well, we could be like China and India and not do a thing about any of those.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:49 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Where speeches and lectures not made by Marx?
Your quote isn't a speech or lecture, but - in Marx' own words - a Rohentwurf ("rough draft"), thought to be one of preliminary works for the Kapital.


One of the founders of Socialism was Lassale. Bishop Kettler adopted, in 1863, Lassalle's views, and published his Die Arbeitfrage und das Christenthum ("The Labourer Question and Christianity"), thus giving another foundation of the "Christian Social Teaching" (Christliche Soziallehre.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:51 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Well, we could be like China and India and not do a thing about any of those.

That might be an attractive option for Trump supporters but both China and India are taking steps to reduce pollution because it is obviously an economic drain on the society. Both are large countries with a combined population of over two-and-a-half billion people, 36% of world population. India, in particular, with less-developed infrastructure will have a hard time making progress on the environmental front but at least the government is honest enough to recognize that there is a problem. China will probably make pretty good progress over the next ten years. They have a thriving solar industry and, being a one party state semi-authoritarian state, drawing up new regulations and enforcing them is a bit simpler.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:52 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
I've never met any of those people; where'd you run into them?

I've read about them, the invention of the car put a lot of people out of work, who do you think ran the stables not to mention an entire industry dedicated to caring for people's horses.

Quote:
Yeah sure, laugh all you want. Thing is, industrial pollution, smog caused by automobile exhaust, mine tailings, coal ash, hog manure lagoons, environmental lead, etc all represent serious threats to people and end up costing the economy millions because of health care costs, loss of productivity, and cleaning up after toxic spills on land and water. We know that waste products of industrial production incur costs to society long after they've been released into the environment. Why should people pay the price in poor health and costly amelioration while polluting corporations are allowed and encouraged to make maximum profits by ignoring the effects of waste downstream?

Our nation has been making progress on these fronts for years. You have said nothing more than what the extreme left use as scare tactics against industry. I actually have little respect for regulations that didn't get passed by Congress and are passed instead by unelected officials.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 12:57 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
but both China and India are taking steps to reduce pollution

Would you like to share what they are doing and the reductions accomplished?
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 01:26 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I've read about them, the invention of the car put a lot of people out of work, who do you think ran the stables not to mention an entire industry dedicated to caring for people's horses.

Gee, that's really fascinating. I guess that's why truckers belong to the teamster's union.

Obviously there have been many examples of new technologies replacing old ones. Despite what you may want to think, I'm not a Luddite, but I do have some concern that displaced workers will be treated as just so much industrial waste by their former employers. More social spending ensues...

Quote:
Our nation has been making progress on these fronts for years.

Yes, which is why Trump's reactionary deregulation will incur costs in the future.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 01:35 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Would you like to share what they are doing and the reductions accomplished?

...from an article in the Hindustan Times:
Quote:

(...)

The massive economic growth of China was coupled with an increased energy demand, rapid urbanisation and faster motorisation. The result was rising air pollution in cities. In fact not long back, many cities in China were known for their notorious air quality. A study published in the famous science journal ‘The Lancet’ estimated that 11 lakh people had died prematurely in China due to ambient air pollution in 2015.

But things are different now, as China’s war against air pollution is now beginning to show results. Let me highlight three important takeaways for India:

Measure and monitor

One of the key reasons why there is so much inaction on air quality front is because of the lack of data. China now has a nationwide air quality monitoring system, which records the real-time Air Quality Index (AQI) in seventy-four cities. The capital city, Beijing, now has around 35 air quality monitoring stations, which record pollutants such as PM 2.5. The city now hopes to upgrade the monitoring systems by doubling the total number of air quality monitoring stations. Delhi has only 10 air quality monitoring stations while Gurugram has only one. In addition to the quantity of the monitoring stations, real-time monitoring still remains a challenge in Delhi-NCR.

Specific and measurable targets

China’s Air Pollution Prevention and Control Action Plan (APPCAP) set up specific and measurable targets for 2013-17. As per the plan, PM10 concentration in urban areas were to be decreased by 10% by 2017 compared to the 2012 base. Similarly, the deadly PM2.5 concentrations for the Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei region were supposed to be lowered by 25% by 2017. The APPCAP also set up a target of PM2·5 below 60 for Beijing in 2017. However, this is not the end. China’s new plan for tackling air pollution that was published in July this year is more detailed and covers more cities than the one that expired at the end of 2017. The new plan also moves beyond PM2.5, and include gases like ozone in a big way. Hence, we should have similar achievable targets for Delhi and Gurugram and take actions accordingly to achieve and maintain them.

Concrete action on ground

In five years between 2013 to 2017, Beijing replaced four outdated coal-powered plants with gas-based ones. In addition, the city also has a campaign to demolish 39,000 terawatt hours of coal-fired boilers to curb pollution. During this period, the city also refurbished 2.17 million vehicles, which had high emissions and installed three-way catalytic converters for 50,000 taxis. The city has also rolled out of 200,000 new and clean energy vehicles for public transportation. Beijing has also put restriction on the number of private vehicles that can be registered every year. In addition, electric two wheelers are deployed for local freight delivery, thus managing emissions in a very planned and strategic way.

The strategy is already bearing results, as PM 2.5 levels are down by more than one third in 26 surrounding cities of Beijing, while Beijing itself has reported 50% reduction. Researchers have estimated that there were 47,000 fewer deaths in the country due to improved air quality in 74 cities in China in 2017 as compared to 2013.

Apart from the three main technical reasons, the biggest learning from China’s fight against air pollution is that it came from the highest authority of the country. It was President Xi Jinping who made the fight against air pollution country’s main priority.

India cannot and should not blindly copy from China, but it can surely use the framework for solving this problem. Air pollution is not a seasonal but a year-round problem in India, although stubble burning and firecrackers take it to the next level.

Amit Bhatt

Really, do a little research yourself. It's interesting. There's plenty of information available.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 02:16 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Gee, that's really fascinating. I guess that's why truckers belong to the teamster's union.

So the Unions will lobby Congress to make self-driving trucks illegal? How about when if it's determined that self-driving truck produce less pollution and traffic, will you still support the truck driver or the tech that will replace him?

Quote:
Obviously there have been many examples of new technologies replacing old ones.

I wonder if the Bowling Pin Setters union would have been able to protect their jobs in the face of automated pin setters...

Quote:
Despite what you may want to think, I'm not a Luddite, but I do have some concern that displaced workers will be treated as just so much industrial waste by their former employers.

I'm wondering what responsibility the employer has to the employee in a case like this? As you have already noted, tech has been replacing people since the late 1800's, they all found work, why would the current generation be worse off? This doom and gloom you preach has been done before and it wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

Quote:
More social spending ensues...

Not sure why that is always the answer from you guys. When are people going to be responsible for themselves, make sure they are looking to the future and what the job market will bring?

0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 02:52 pm
Tell that to the coal miners.
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 03:04 pm
@glitterbag,
Yes, tell it to the coal miners who had their job artificially killed due to overbearing regulations, their jobs didn't go away because of the natural job industry changing process.
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 03:59 pm
MSNBC beats Fox in key ratings for first time in 17 years
https://thehill.com/media/422929-msnbc-beats-fox-in-key-ratings-for-first-time-in-17-years

One of Trumps few accomplishments is, inadvertently, driving people away from Fox News and the republican brand.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 04:02 pm
I prefer capitalism over socialism only when capitalism is highly regulated to include the best elements of socialism within it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2018 04:22 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
More crooked republican's sentences to be announced soon regarding Flint...
Get your facts straight. It was Obama's EPA that failed to protect Flint's water.
Region Philbis
 
  4  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 08:35 am

https://i.imgur.com/pXKkB3g.jpg
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 09:18 am
@oralloy,
Get YOUR facts straight. It was a state responsibility not federal. And trump is doing his damnedest to gut the EPA anyway.
 

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