Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

@Baldimo,

I actually agree with Baldi's first point.

but I wanted to take issue with blowjob's implied assumption that the party is more important than the people who support it - and party DNA overrides the will of those supporters.

The Republican and Democratic parties would be unrecognisable to their founders, surely you know that much history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States

Like the Tea Party is traditional GOP?

And to lightly disagree with Baldi's second point: thinking liberalism (whatever the frig that means) is a project of 60s universities is cart before horse.

All that changed was increased access to information and the channels it flows through (both through increased university attendance and broader technological changes).

With those settings change the the percentage of the population with broad empathy found common cause around issues that existing power structures either ignored or fomented - from racial exploitation to gender subjugation.

Neither conservative or 'liberal' is exclusively in or out of this group. The biggest difference is the rate of change those two labels find acceptable.

True conservatives don't fear or fight change, they just want it to come in an orderly organic fashion driven by the majority - not thrust upon an unwilling populace to the detriment of institutions.

And to really disagree with Baldi - why are college 'safe spaces' "nonsene"?

So you advocate for violence against the LGBT community? Or at least not to do anything about it.

I guess I can untick the empath box on your profile.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

And to really disagree with Baldi - why are college 'safe spaces' "nonsene"?
So you advocate for violence against the LGBT community? Or at least not to do anything about it.
I guess I can untick the empath box on your profile.

I was in college in the early 90's when the upside down pink triangle started popping up on classroom doors. My only thought at the time was "where is the room for nerds/geeks and fat kids". I was in that group of picked on kids in the 80's who liked scifi and didn't fit the jock norms, so I was ruthlessly picked on as a kid. I only wondered why this group of people had a safe space and none of the other picked on groups of kids didn't.

Now of course the "safe space" of those days is long a classroom to sit with an understand person and talk about your problems, it's gone and has been replaced with an entire campus that must be protected from speech and idea's they disagree with. Universities used to be a place where you went to be challenged, that is no longer the case, it's the place you go to be protected from different idea's and have your ideals of social justice reaffirmed.

You were doing pretty good until this whole line of BS. Quit the pandering and don't be childish.

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@Baldimo,

Actually you've proved my point about empathy.

You're argument is that 'why should they be protected when I wasn't?'

I was talking about safe spaces in their original intent (I had to look it up because it's not a term in common use here).

As for your introduced point about "an entire campus that must be protected from speech and idea's they disagree with" I agree that it is a worrying trend - particularly in the US. The conflation of hate speech with uncomfortable facts seems insidious.

You do see the semi-contradiction of your stance though, don't you? :

On one hand universities are hotbeds promoting a radical agenda, and on the other hand they're a place where snowflakes don't want to hear different opinions. Ergo the snowflakes go to university with a radical agenda already in their heads and the universities can't do anything about it supplanting it.

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@hingehead,

What influences a person's life.
http://behaviorandmotivation.com/2011/08/21/sources-of-influence-your-life/

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_eG6DJUQAElEsw.jpg:large

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@TheCobbler,

Trump isn't and wasn't the target of the Russia investigation. Try again.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

Actually you've proved my point about empathy.
You're argument is that 'why should they be protected when I wasn't?'

That isn't or wasn't the argument at all. It was more along the lines of "what makes this group different than the other groups who get picked on?"

Quote:

As for your introduced point about "an entire campus that must be protected from speech and idea's they disagree with" I agree that it is a worrying trend - particularly in the US. The conflation of hate speech with uncomfortable facts seems insidious.

It is only going to get worse before it gets better.

Quote:

You do see the semi-contradiction of your stance though, don't you? :

On one hand universities are hotbeds promoting a radical agenda, and on the other hand they're a place where snowflakes don't want to hear different opinions. Ergo the snowflakes go to university with a radical agenda already in their heads and the universities can't do anything about it supplanting it

Wrong. The public schools start the crap fest and it continues on into college. There is no difference in opinion from the liberal HS teacher they had to the liberal professor they will have in college, it's the same old production line of anti-US hatred.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Brilliant article on why Conservative governments hate an educated populace

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/education/2017/05/06/turnbulls-war-universities/14939928004602

One specific point that relates to your 'argument' - universities (or is public schools now?) don't teach radical ideas, they teach critical thinking - what you do with that skill it is up to you.

Conservative politicians are no less educated than their more liberal counterparts - but, in these wise words coming from a 19th century parliamentary debate:

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it."

I'd like to cite the author, but I have competing sources that say it was either John Stuart Mill or John Pakington, a 19th Century Tory MP.

Critical thinking, hey?

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@hingehead,

Stupid people always try to claim that stupid people are concentrated in ideologies opposed to their own. It's one of those weird constants of the universe.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Stupid people always try to claim that stupid people are concentrated in ideologies opposed to their own

talk about pot calling the kettle black.

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@MontereyJack,

No. I've never stated that stupid people concentrate in ideologies opposed to mine, so I cannot be offered as evidence of hypergeniuses making that sort of claim.

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@MontereyJack,

Response moderated: Personal attack. See more info.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

I also note that stupid people always rely on name-calling.

This is most likely because their stupidity prevents them from constructing intelligent arguments to support their positions. Name-calling is all that their tiny little brains are capable of.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

Brilliant article on why Conservative governments hate an educated populace
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/education/2017/05/06/turnbulls-war-universities/14939928004602

Yeah, brilliant. Doesn't come close to anything I have stated about education though. I'm all for education, I'm against worthless education. When good schools like UW Madison graduate more Sociology grads then they do engineering grads, something is wrong. I'm not saying a Sociology degree is worthless, but it is much less important to society than an engineer and I would rather my govt prirotize their education dollars on important degrees.

Quote:

One specific point that relates to your 'argument' - universities (or is public schools now?) don't teach radical ideas, they teach critical thinking - what you do with that skill it is up to you.

Critical thinking my ass. If they taught real critical thinking, then those same students here in the states wouldn't be demanding "safe spaces" from differing opinions. Critical thinking went out the window a few decades ago when emotions and feelings replaced logic and fact.

Quote:

Conservative politicians are no less educated than their more liberal counterparts - but, in these wise words coming from a 19th century parliamentary debate:

"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it."

I'd like to cite the author, but I have competing sources that say it was either John Stuart Mill or John Pakington, a 19th Century Tory MP.

Critical thinking, hey?

I'm not surprised you found an old quote from a liberal politician name calling his opponent. It goes to show that liberals the world over and regardless of point in time haven't really changed their ways. The Antifi thugs running though the streets of the US are proof enough of that and to double down on the Brown Shirt activity taking place in American Universities and colleges, the University of Arizona has this as a job description for a new position at the school:

Quote:

“The position also aims to increase understanding of one’s own self through critical reflection of power and privilege, identity and intersectionality, systems of socialization, cultural competency and allyship as they pertain to the acknowledgement, understanding and acceptance of differences. Finally, this position intends to increase a student staff member’s ability to openly lead conversations, discuss differences and confront diversely insensitive behavior.”

Critical thinking or the actual rise of fascism?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/10/university-arizona-paying-students-be-social-justi/

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

You're such a dick sometimes.

You say the article has nothing to do with anything you stated. As I said, it had one point that related to our discussion - which you kindly edited out of your quotes.

Then you proceed to argue against what the article says because it disagrees with your point.

Sorry, must be my white guilt speaking.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

What I see in conservatives today is not the conservatives of earlier times. Their leader Trump is a racial and religious bigot, and all his supporters.
People who fail to see the obvious can't be supported.
Trump is a man-child without the proper maturity and level headedness to lead this country. Any country.
He admires Putin while denegrating our own government.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Quote:

You're such a dick sometimes.

What's wrong Hinge, did I hurt your feelings?

Quote:

You say the article has nothing to do with anything you stated. As I said, it had one point that related to our discussion - which you kindly edited out of your quotes.

Of course I did, it was a worthless point and doesn't address the lack of education for poor uneducated urban voters who vote for Dems. It only wanted to point to poor whites as stupid and uneducated and that is the reason they vote for Conservatives. Another pointless "voting against their best interests" study. Sure it tried to make the point that lack of money had nothing to do with it and that wealthy Conservatives are also stupid, that's why they vote for Conservatives. The constant claim is that those who vote right of center are voting against their best interests and therefor are stupid.

Quote:

Then you proceed to argue against what the article says because it disagrees with your point.

Sorry, must be my white guilt speaking.

Was I suppose to agree with the article? I see you actually tried to address the points I made... Rolling Eyes

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

What I see in conservatives today is not the conservatives of earlier times. Their leader Trump is a racial and religious bigot, and all his supporters.
People who fail to see the obvious can't be supported.

I'm surprised you can hold up such a broad brush with the wimpy old man arms. You been working out?

Besides, Trump is not a conservative, only people such as yourself see him as a Conservative.

Quote:

Trump is a man-child without the proper maturity and level headedness to lead this country. Any country.

I'm still reserving judgement over Trump just as I did with Obama, he got 2 years and so does Trump.

Quote:

He admires Putin while denegrating our own government.

Obama did the same thing when dealing with foreign govts. He had kinder words for Iran and Cuba then he ever had for the GOP. He bend over backwards to work with Iran for over 20 months but hardly gave the GOP the time of day. You can get off your high horse. Obama said and did the very same things about the GOP, but you didn't mind it because you agreed with him. Imagine how the govt would have been over the last 8 years if Obama gave the GOP as many chances as those who want to kill our soldiers.

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@Baldimo,

Cuba? I've been to Cuba several times, and found that Cubans like Americans and American products. I have friends there, including Hiroshi Robaina who owns one of the largest tobacco farms in Cuba. My travel buddy and I have many friends in the service industry.
Cuba used to be a popular vacation spot for many movie stars and politicians in the 1950s. Most of the cars in Cuba are 1950s American cars that they treasure and keep in mint condition. The music, food, and friendliness of the Cubans are number 1.
Many in other countries do not care for Trump, but at the same time have many American friends. I have a couple of friends in Moscow, Russia.
I also have friends in Mexico, Dominican Republic, Singapore, England, Germany, France and Egypt.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Cuba? I've been to Cuba several times, and found that Cubans like Americans and American products. I have friends there, including Hiroshi Robaina who owns one of the largest tobacco farms in Cuba. My travel buddy and I have many friends in the service industry.
Cuba used to be a popular vacation spot for many movie stars and politicians in the 1950s. Most of the cars in Cuba are 1950s American cars that they treasure and keep in mint condition. The music, food, and friendliness of the Cubans are number 1.

Good for you. How does this relate to Obama and his kind dealings with a Dictator state? I read up on your buddy, it sounds like his Grandfather was on Castro's good side and was able to travel the world. Not many Cubans can say the same...

Quote:

Many in other countries do not care for Trump, but at the same time have many American friends. I have a couple of friends in Moscow, Russia.
I also have friends in Mexico, Dominican Republic, Singapore, England, Germany, France and Egypt.

Your point being? I have friends in many different parts of the world as well, what does that have to do with Obama and his kind words and over the top friendless to Iran? How many US troops died because of Iran's support for terrorists groups in Iraq? Obama couldn't wait to craft a deal with a country that has actually killed US troops. How many US troops have died from Russian support for terrorism? I'm talking about modern day Russia, not the communist USSR the American Left wanted to be friends with.

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Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

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