46
   

Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:26 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Yes they are. I looked up this list of University hospitals, went to the section for the US, and took the first selection of the first 8 states. Going by website or phone call, here are the answers to the question of whether they accept patients with Medicaid.
1. Providence Alaska Medical Center. Yes.
2. Univ or Alabama Hospital, Birmingham. Yes
3. Banner University Medical Care Center Phoenix. Yes.
4. University of Colorado Hospital- University of Colorado School of Medicine. Yes.
5. St. Vincent's (CT) Medical Center. Yes.
7. George Washington University Medical Center, (DC). Yes.
8. U of Florida Medical Center, Jacksonville. Yes.

All eight of the university medical school affiliated hospitals accepted Medicaid. And just for added emphasis, I looked up these two revered institutions that people from overseas fly over to the US to get treated at:

Memorial Sloan Kettering: Yes
Mayo Clinic: Yes.

So virtually all University hospitals accept their state's Medicaid as payment. The world famous Mayo Cinic in Rochester, MN even accepts Medicaid from neighboring North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin as well.

The question is not whether a given hospital is willing to accept Medicaid.

The question is whether a given hospital is "within the network" of Medicaid HMOs.

It doesn't matter how willing a given hospital is to accept Medicaid, if the Medicaid HMO does not include that hospital within their network.


Blickers wrote:
1. On Medicaid you are quite capable of getting treatment for a difficult problem, the whole hospital as at your disposal and you can always go to University Hospitals affiliated with Medical Schools, who have a whole staff of prominent people in the field.

You can't go to a university hospital if that hospital is not in your HMO's network.


Blickers wrote:
2. "Unnecessary side effects" is a figment of your imagination,

Not at all. People on Medicaid really are given medicine that has unpleasant side effects even when there are cheap generics available that have no side effects.


Blickers wrote:
although you will continue to say it as if it was fact.

I'm a big fan of facts.


Blickers wrote:
You have offered no proof whatsoever.

I'm aware of a case where it has happened.


Blickers wrote:
3. Medicaid doesn't pay for deluxe cosmetics, but they offer the standard cosmetics that many private plans allow.

That is incorrect. Medicaid will not cover standard cheap cosmetics. People on Medicaid have to make do with cosmetics from the 1800s.


Blickers wrote:
Similarly, they don't offer the deluxe wheelchair with GPS, they pay for the standard wheelchair. As usual, in an effort to take away people's Medicaid and substitute nothing, you are trying to pass off the idea that no cosmetics go with appropriate operations, so when you throw 5 Million people off Medicaid and eliminate their access to health care, it won't seem so horrible.

I'm not proposing "no substitution". I propose that people be given enough of a tax credit so that they can afford to buy real health care.


Blickers wrote:
4. Loss of inheritance: Only applies to people getting Medicaid who are over 55.

That's fine if all the poor people die by age 55.

But sometimes poor people live to age 56 and beyond.

Maybe Medicaid will start compelling the poor to commit suicide at age 55 just so their children can keep their inheritance.


Blickers wrote:
Says the man who champions the Trumpcare bill which will take away the healthcare of 5 Million people who now have Medicaid and won't be able to afford Trumpcare, even with the tax credits. You can't talk about the need to treat rare diseases when you want to take away 5 Million people's ability to get professionally treated for any disease at all.

If the tax credits are increased enough, they will be able to afford to buy real health insurance.


Blickers wrote:
That's the problem. The tax credits from Trumpcare won't even come close to enabling Medicaid recipients who presently earn between $9K and $18K annually to buy insurance from the exchanges. Instead, Trumpcare will simply throw them off Medicaid with no substitute plan that they can afford.

Increase the tax credits until they are big enough.


Blickers wrote:
And oh yes, Medicaid has no co-payment. Trumpcare will,

A holdover from Obamacare. Before Obamacare I was able to buy insurance with an out of pocket maximum of only $250 a year. Now I have to pick a plan with a roughly $5,000 per year out of pocket maximum.


Blickers wrote:
That's nonsense. The poor get the treatment they need, starting with General Practitioners, moving up to specialists, and then, if necessary, a University teaching hospital. And medications are free with no copay, since people making under $18K yearly cannot afford them.

The poor get substandard cosmetics, unnecessary side effects, their children lose their inheritance (unless people commit suicide by age 55), and it remains to be seen whether these advanced hospitals are within most Medicaid networks.


Blickers wrote:
The bill as written does not supply anwhere near the necessary amount of help, the money from the tax credit won't go near the amount of the premiums. As it was written, a 63 year old man making $18,000 yearly would have to pay $25,000 yearly in Trumpcare premiums. Ryan said they adjusted that, but how much adjusting could they do and still call it the same bill? And if this Trumpcare bill passes, come Jan 1 those working poor making between $9K and $18K annually are off Medicare and not able to afford Trumpcare premiums, even with the tax credits.

So increase the tax credits until they are large enough to let people afford real insurance.


Blickers wrote:
Believe it or not, this is not the only thing wrong with Trumpcare, but this is enough to render the bill a disaster for the working poor.

Medicaid is already a disaster for the working poor.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 01:11 am
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
The question is not whether a given hospital is willing to accept Medicaid.

The question is whether a given hospital is "within the network" of Medicaid HMOs.

The Medicaid HMO normally includes every hospital in the state. I know at least three people on Medicaid who had no trouble going to either of two major teaching hospitals 50 miles away, (in different directions). You are simply inventing something out of thin air. If the hospital in your state takes Medicaid and you need a referral, you get it. The only place that seems to have different Medicaid HMOs is California, and California has 32 teaching hospitals, so each HMO has one or more.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
You can't go to a university hospital if that hospital is not in your HMO's network.

In most states, every hospital in the state is in your HMO. The only one with that Medicaid HMO thing seems to be California, which is teeming with teaching hospitals.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
That is incorrect. Medicaid will not cover standard cheap cosmetics. People on Medicaid have to make do with cosmetics from the 1800s.

Anymore Frankenstein type images you want to draw? What procedure do you know of where truly necessary cosmetics aren't used? If cosmetics are necessary, Medicaid will pay. And cosmetics are secondary to keeping people alive, which kicking the working poor off Medicaid will not do unless subsidies under Trumpcare are radically increased. As Trumpcare stands now, the working poor are facing doom.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
So increase the tax credits until they are large enough to let people afford real insurance.....
....Increase the tax credits until they are big enough......
....If the tax credits are increased enough, they will be able to afford to buy real health insurance......


When pigs fly. The whole purpose of replacing Obamacare was to water it way down so it will cost the government less. Then Trump during the campaign let himself go and say his new plan will cover everyone and have more benefits, and his voters believed him. Now the Administration is stuck with coming up with this miracle plan that gives more and costs less, and Trumpcare's eviction of the working poor off Medicaid without providing sufficient subsidies, (or "tax credits"), is the answer. Apparently something had to give, and they decided that "something" was working people making between $9K and $18K yearly.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 01:50 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The Medicaid HMO normally includes every hospital in the state. I know at least three people on Medicaid who had no trouble going to either of two major teaching hospitals 50 miles away, (in different directions).

If you're sure about that, I'll take your word for it.


Blickers wrote:
You are simply inventing something out of thin air.

More that I was suspicious and asking questions, because I know what HMOs try to do to people.


Blickers wrote:
If the hospital in your state takes Medicaid and you need a referral, you get it.

Maybe for someone's first referral for a problem. But HMOs tend to not allow multiple referrals if the first specialist is not satisfactory and someone wants a second or third opinion.

That's the whole reason for requiring referrals in the first place. HMOs wanted to limit the number of specialists that people could see, and they created referrals as a gateway that they could then limit.


Blickers wrote:
Anymore Frankenstein type images you want to draw? What procedure do you know of where truly necessary cosmetics aren't used? If cosmetics are necessary, Medicaid will pay.

The problem is, modern cosmetics are not "necessary". Even if they are cheap and affordable, they aren't necessary.


Blickers wrote:
And cosmetics are secondary to keeping people alive, which kicking the working poor off Medicaid will not do unless subsidies under Trumpcare are radically increased. As Trumpcare stands now, the working poor are facing doom.

I'm fine with dramatically increasing the subsidies.


Blickers wrote:
When pigs fly. The whole purpose of replacing Obamacare was to water it way down so it will cost the government less. Then Trump during the campaign let himself go and say his new plan will cover everyone and have more benefits, and his voters believed him. Now the Administration is stuck with coming up with this miracle plan that gives more and costs less, and Trumpcare's eviction of the working poor off Medicaid without providing sufficient subsidies, (or "tax credits"), is the answer. Apparently something had to give, and they decided that "something" was working people making between $9K and $18K yearly.

This health plan came from Paul Ryan, not from Donald Trump. If the Left can manage to not treat Trump like their enemy, they may well find that on this issue Trump is willing to side with them against Ryan.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:08 am
@hingehead,
Poor analogy.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:15 am
@hingehead,
Another poor analogy. I'm not asking for anyone to pay for my guns and ammo or my range time.
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 04:42 pm
@Baldimo,
I don't think it's an analogy, it's a fact.

You have the right to bear arms, but medical care is a privilege.

But you're right - no one's paying for your toys or playground.

Always nice to be the privileged as you spiral into a Dickensian dystopia.
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 04:54 pm
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/db/fb/6f/dbfb6ff5c4f3125d249c90e31ffb4688.jpg
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 09:34 pm
Labor nominee Acosta cut deal with billionaire guilty in sex abuse case

Apparently Trump drained the swamp because it was too clean, now working to make it even more rank.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Mar, 2017 09:50 pm
@hingehead,
How low will he go? Will there be an upside?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 11:26 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
I don't think it's an analogy, it's a fact.

It is an analogy and it is a horrible one. If you understood the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, you would know that.

Quote:
You have the right to bear arms, but medical care is a privilege.

This is where you lose. There is a difference between medical care and health insurance. Medical care is indeed a right and no hospital can turn you away. Health insurance isn't a right but it isn't a privilege either, it's a product. Just like the 2nd Amendment is a right, but in order to use that right, I have to first by a gun, which is a product.

Quote:
But you're right - no one's paying for your toys or playground.

It's a right though isn't it. According to you, if it's a right, then there shouldn't be profit associated with ones rights. How much do you think the left is willing to pay in taxes for me to have the right of a gun?

Quote:
Always nice to be the privileged as you spiral into a Dickensian dystopia.

Privileged? In what way?


hingehead
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 05:13 pm
@Baldimo,
You're missing the point - in several ways, but that's hardly surprising.

The right to bear arms is a right.

Medical care is not a right (unless you can show me where it says it is in the constitution and its amendments).

It's about the nature of political discourse - not about who pays for what. Your preconceptions dragged that in.

The idea that you can't be refused medical care in the US is so gobsmackingly bullshitty I can't believe you're saying it. If you can't be refused medical why is health insurance such a freaking fraught topic in your political landscape?

Oh, and if you can't see your privilege. Well, 'nuff said.

I certainly see mine.
TheCobbler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Mar, 2017 11:46 pm
Russian info-war tactics in US election continue:
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/russian-info-war-tactics-in-us-election-continue-903442499654
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 09:12 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
You're missing the point - in several ways, but that's hardly surprising.

Maybe you should be more clear about your point instead of beating around the bush.

Quote:
The right to bear arms is a right.

Correct

Quote:
Medical care is not a right (unless you can show me where it says it is in the constitution and its amendments).

You are correct, it is not a right mentioned in either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.

Quote:
It's about the nature of political discourse - not about who pays for what. Your preconceptions dragged that in.

Of course you aren't concerned for who is paying the bills for those rights. Once you make a product and a service a "right" then who pays for it is a very big concern. I know, the answer is to raise taxes on the rich blah blah blah. The wealthy, hell the populace, are not the piggy bank for every want and whim and "right" people want.

Quote:
The idea that you can't be refused medical care in the US is so gobsmackingly bullshitty I can't believe you're saying it. If you can't be refused medical why is health insurance such a freaking fraught topic in your political landscape?

Do you live here? Have you been to a hospital here in the US before? There was a law passed back in 1986 that made it illegal to refuse emergency care at all hospitals in the US. Private hospitals can turn people away but not for emergency care. If you show up with a little cut on your finger a private hospital can tell you to go to a public hospital.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Quote:
Oh, and if you can't see your privilege. Well, 'nuff said.

Ha ha ha. It's that how it always turns out. Someone calls out another persons "privilege" and when challenged to state what that privilege is, it is always the same response, "Oh, and if you can't see your privilege...". That's BS sjw snowflake talk.

Quote:
I certainly see mine.

Please share what your "privilege" is.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 10:07 am
@hingehead,
Up to a point, medical care is a right. Anyone showing up in an emergency room must be treated.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 10:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
If you are speaking with respect to the law your statement is incorrect. "Medical care" is a very broad term, encompassing urgent care in an emergency , routine preventative care and long term treatment of disease. A legal requirement for the provisioning of urgent care in an emergency is not the same as the term medial care as you are using it.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 11:00 am
@georgeob1,
I said, "Anyone showing up in an emergency room must be treated."

That's the law.
Quote:
Emergency room care: Know your rights - Insure.com
http://www.insure.com/health-insurance/emergency-rights.html
Jul 12, 2016 ... If you go to the emergency room, federal law entitles you to certain rights. ... A hospital must provide "stabilizing care" for a patient with an emergency medical condition.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 11:48 am
@cicerone imposter,
An emergency room will see anyone for anything. Show up with a cold and they will see you, show up complaining of pain in your elbow and they will see you, even if you can't afford their $50 band aid, they will see you. Private hospitals might turn you away, but all public hospitals will see you.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 11:54 am
@Baldimo,
Do you know what "stabilizing care" means?
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 05:06 pm
President Trump does not have a right to nominate a court appointee with his political views considering his presidency is illegitimate due to Russian meddling in our election and news.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Mar, 2017 05:11 pm
@TheCobbler,
He's not legitimate to many, but he still can nominate a court appointee. The politics in our country has really been damaged when the GOP didn't allow Obama's appointee to become a judge.
With Trump's approval rating hovering at 40%, I'm confident he'll be a one term president. I just hope the liberals present a better candidate to the American people in the future.
0 Replies
 
 

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