Being Lesbian in Chile

Think of all of this:

You are trying to change people's view of this whole thing... people like me. If you can sell me on this, then you are on your way to the world that you wish to live in. Don't give up... just look at what I have said, and realise that there are a lot of people out there, as you well know, who feel the same way--if not even more conservative. I'll tell you right now, bashing their personal opinions will not win them over.

Maybe instead of focusing on what causes people to be GLBT, focus on their contributions to society. Maybe find, or make, documented and credible interviews and research on children who have grown up with GLBT parents... and look at how GLBT's live their lives, and what kinds of influence they have had on their communities... like volunteer work, or their actual jobs... I mean, we could argue all day on scientific proof of why people are the way they are, or how to determine who would be good parents.

Its not what someone is capable of, but what they have actually done, right?

Good luck Smile

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Don't tell me my previous post is going to end this thread.

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LRR,

Have you read all of the posts on this thread?

Sam

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Hood, you simply refuse to understand people and who they are - just follow your blind ideologies.....

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Sam1951 wrote:

LRR,

Have you read all of the posts on this thread?

Sam

Yes, I have. I think some of you are well on your way to making a difference. But comments like this last one made by BillW are not helping your cause, but hurting it greatly.

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Can't handle the truth - ideology wins out, gotta listen to the next Limpbag program so I can be told what I need to think, please hurry up so I can get my Rush fix, the truth is leaking in and may take hold - oh, thank god Rush just came on; saved.......

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LRR...

Yah, I know, I just try to be understanding. Everyone needs to blow off a little steam now and then. You can choose to be offended or not. "There is no offence given when none is taken."
One thing to keep in mind is that you may know lots of GLBTs, but not know that they are GLBT. I learned from your thread, on dealing with death, that your are about 26 years old. Have you met most of those you know to be GLBT in bars or Night Clubs? Are they all male? You refer to "gays" rather than GLBT (To me gay equals homosexual male.)
I worked as a chef at a GLBT Club in St Paul MN. I saw many witty, charming, intelligent people become drunk, stupid, stereotypic queers, every night. I walked away from that job, because It broke my heart.
When society believes a group to be "bad", "wrong" or "evil" those belonging to that group can and often are negatively effected. That's right, people often become what other people tell them they are. Billie says this is known as the "Halo Effect", conforming to the preconceptions of others. Tell a person they are ugly for long enough and they will see themselves as ugly.
I don't know one alcoholic or drug addict that likes themself. People with self-esteem issues frequently turn to alcohol or drugs for relief from the pain and depression. Treating depression with depressants only makes things worse.
There is also the whole reputation thing. As an example: I catch someone, I'll call them Dana, in a lie. In my mind Dana is a liar. Dana may never tell another lie. Until I let go of the idea that Dana is a liar, to me Dana is still a liar. People can and do change. It is up to others to see the change and accept it.

Sam

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Sam wrote:

When society believes a group to be "bad", "wrong" or "evil" those belonging to that group can and often are negatively effected.

Wow, I like that.........

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LRR - have you read Sam's posts about her involvement with children? How do you feel about that? Did it effect how you think about Sam?

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L.L.R.Hood writes,

Quote:

Does there really need to be a study regarding the genitals we are born with? I have come to the conclusion that people's personalities are more a product of their environment than anything.

Who says anything about personalities? You are male, right? Do you believe that your sexual desire for women is a product of your environment?

If you're going to say yes, what about the millions of gay and lesbians who grew up going to Christian churches and grew up with both heterosexual parents. Do you know how they became homosexuals? Did they just wake up one day and told themselves that they want to be gay or lesbian? I know many gay men and one lesbian who grew up in very conservative Christian environments with very traditional conservative parents who still turned out to be gay. How do you explain that? One of my friends grew up with very conservative Baptist parents. He grew up going to Sunday school every Sunday and a private Catholic school during the weekdays. He is not alone. Many lesbians and gays go through the same situation in life but later find out that they have very strong and innate sexual feelings for the same sex. It puzzles me to this day but I know my friends are good people and I support them 100 percent.

You still haven't answered my question. Are there any scientific research (meaning scientific experiments conducted and scrutinized by the scientific community) which concludes that heterosexuality is genetic?

I think it is fair for you to answer that since you questioned us about the existence of any scientific proof concerning the genetic origin of homosexuality.

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Sam... I, believe it or not, have only been to 2 bars... and no night clubs. I meant GLBT, not just gays. Until I read this thread, I never saw anyone use GLBT.

EhBeth... I don't know Sam well enough to have much of an opinion about the working with children situation.

Fairandbalanced... I am NOT male. I'm female... does that change your opinion of me? Why did you assume I was male?

I would appreciate it if you would stop asking me the same question over and over... I gave you my answer. Environment is an interesting topic. One's family is only one small part of our environment.

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LRR

Great, bars are really not good places to met people. Funny, you have the perception of GLBTs as shallow and self-centered, for me it's theatre people. I have the damnedest time squelching my desire to paint every actor, dancer, director etc... I meet as being a self-focused, egotistical, bugger. I get really annoyed with myself over this. I consider it to be a character flaw in me that I am having a tough time rooting out.

The whole nature or nurture, genetics or choice controversy may never be settled. personally, I don't care. Up until I met Billie I lived a pretty normal heterosexual life. Interestingly enough, however, in my dreams I was always male. In only one frequently recurring dream was I both male and female. That dream is considered by most Native American Elders as both a Two Spirit (GLBT) and/or a Heyoka (Sacred Clown) dream. Go figure, I was raised Roman Catholic, not told about my Lakota heritage until age 10 and never acted on any GLBT interest until I met Billie; now I am following Traditional Lakota Ways and think of myself as GLBT. Oh yes, now I am happy, where before there was a nagging feeling that something was wrong with my life.

These questions fall into the, it's none of my business category, so answers are optional. Where did/do my meet the GLBTs you know? What do the do for work? I'm just trying to get a, vicarious, impression of them.

Sam

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L.L.R.Hood writes

Quote:

Fairandbalanced... I am NOT male. I'm female... does that change your opinion of me? Why did you assume I was male?

It doesn't matter if you are female. And no, my opinion about you does not change at all? I thought you were male because of your name. It seemed masculine to me.

L.L.R.Hood writes

Quote:

I would appreciate it if you would stop asking me the same question over and over... I gave you my answer.

I keep asking you that question because you never answered it directly. You always try to change the subject.

When I asked you

Quote:

Are there any scientific research (meaning scientific experiments conducted and scrutinized by the scientific community) which concludes that heterosexuality is genetic?

You said

Quote:

Well, if there is no scientific grounds for someone being heterosexual (such as, hummm, I dunno, sexual organs that are a part of our bodies) then there is no scientific grounds for someone being homosexual.

I said

Quote:

Gender identity is not the same as sexual orientation. Like I said, if you are born with certain genitals, that doesn't necessarily indicate your sexual orientation. The existence of hermaphrodites proves that.

You said

Quote:

Does there really need to be a study regarding the genitals we are born with? I have come to the conclusion that people's personalities are more a product of their environment than anything.

You referred to homosexuality as just another person's personality like it was something you can change. Can you change yourself into a lesbian? Do you think you can ever have sex with another woman and like it?

Your answers are erratic, misleading, and unfounded. You brought up the subject of scientific proof concerning the origin of homosexuality. You asked if there was proof. The other A2K members brought up studies done with the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals. Although, I think that study is insufficient to prove their point, you on the other hand have yet to provide any scientific proof. You have no scientific studies and no scientific experiments to cite. The only thing you have to show are mere observations of "such as, hummm, I dunno, sexual organs that are a part of our bodies" or "I have come to the conclusion that people's personalities are more a product of their environment than anything."

That is not scientific proof. Anyone can strip and see their genitals. We are talking about sexuality here and sexuality involves the brain. A person can have an autonomic response to stimuli and have an orgasm. Even you can have an orgasm with a female if you were blindfolded and didn't know of her gender. But it takes innate sexual desires in order to fuel one's sexual orgasms when you are consensually having sex with another person with whom you freely desire.

L.L.R.Hood writes

Quote:

Maybe instead of focusing on what causes people to be GLBT, focus on their contributions to society. Maybe find, or make, documented and credible interviews and research on children who have grown up with GLBT parents... and look at how GLBT's live their lives, and what kinds of influence they have had on their communities... like volunteer work, or their actual jobs... I mean, we could argue all day on scientific proof of why people are the way they are, or how to determine who would be good parents.

That's all good and heart warming. But when it comes to civil rights, being able to keep your child and fighting for them in the US courts, genetics still come first. You can be loving parents to a foster child and have all the proof in the world about your parenting skills but the child's real blood related parents still comes first. If you are a single mother trying to get the father to pay child support and the father refuses to acknowledge the child is his, then you better have a paternity test to prove him wrong. Being able to legitimize your sexual orientation will also legitimize your relationship with your partner which in turn legitimizes your right to keep and care for your children. You see when there is finally concrete scientific proof supporting homosexuality, public opinion will change and so will the laws of the country.

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Sam... interesting thoughts on theater people. I usually just avoid them, since they are outwardly annoying, ha ha.

Ok... There were a handful of lesbians and bisexual females I met in the military. I have no idea what they do now for a living. Oh, and there were a few gay men there as well.

I met quite a few gay men in college. I have no idea what they ended up doing for a degree, but from what I remember, they were either in art or theater.

There were a few gay men in my major (chemistry) and one went to pharmacy school, when the others went on to grad school.

There were assorted GLBT people I met in resturaunt jobs.

There was a bisexual girl I met in college, and I think she's an intern in the gaming development industry.

There are 2 lesbians I have met at the local animal shelter who foster cats who need special care, until they get adopted. They work at wal-mart.

I know a lesbian couple here in my town. One works as a manager at waffle house, and the other is a freelance photographer.

That's all I can think of at the moment Smile

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Fairandbalanced, apparently there is no answer I can give you that would prevent you from complaining. I felt that I answered you, and I'm so sorry it wasn't exactly the very specific answer you were looking for. You and I have different ideas about scientific proof, obviously.

LRRHood is short for Little Red Riding Hood Smile

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There are a couple of masked outcomes to that story.......

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Quote:

Little Red Riding Hood Uncloaked

You know her. Wrapped in red cape, taking dinner to Grandma, traveling through the deep dark woods. Yeah, Red Riding Hood's been around longer than your grandmother, and her grandmother. Her story has more teeth than any big old wolf.

Writer Catherine Orenstein says it's a morality tale, not just for kids; that stories like Red's wend their way through the collective unconscious, that as we evolve, the content of Miss Hood's basket is food for the psyche, cherry pie for changing conceptions of gender and power.

Retold over hundreds of years in dozens of versions, the wolf dead or alive, granny eaten, hidden or triumphant. And Little Red, sex symbol, siren, or innocent.

http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2002/08/20020812_b_main.asp

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Its just a nickname.

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I know, I was not trying to be accusative, just that I am a person of irony. Whenever I see it, I can't help but point it out.

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I'm having some trouble with all the bold print here, but I'm all for lesbians in chili, wrestling and just enjoying themselves. That would be a groundbreaking pay-per-view, way better than a mud match. Fight it out, and have a sexy dinner afterwards.

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Being Lesbian in Chile

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