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Being Lesbian in Chile

 
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:09 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
I agree. My point was, MyOwnUsername, that we though must not keep the thought that mentality will not change, and the situation will be forever the same.


with that I agree.
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:10 pm
MyOwnUsername wrote:
So, let's keep our "army" filled only with "soldiers" that actually choosed to be in it.


Although I agree, you should notice that eventually 99% of the population have an opinion about this issue.
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:13 pm
Rick d'Israeli

Bingo! It is not wether you are heterosexual or GLBT that is important but, are you a good person. Society still trys to dehumanize people who are different than those in "power" and unfortunately many people go along with them. How boring and bland life would be if we were all the same. I work every day to make people aware that the GLBTs of the world are an asset not monsters out to rape their children or "make everyone like them.
Some of the finest minds and most sensitive people I know are GLBT. What better way to an open minded society than to raise children around open minded people.
I was taught by my Dad that everyone is a good person until they prove themselves otherwise.

Sam
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:15 pm
L.R.R.Hood wrote:
Isn't the choice of being gay also the choice of not ever having children?


I respect your ignorance (Lack of understanding or knowledge) and appreciate your question. After reading your profile, you sound as though you'd like to learn, not judge. I like that in a person.

First of all, like yourself, I am also a veteran, US Army Pathfinder from February 1967 to February 1970. One year in 'Nam. Please check my other postings for details. I was like most veterans that returned to civilian life. I wanted to live a "normal" life, wife, kids, house, decent job, etc.

However, I had a "small" secret, I was born in the wrong body. Oh, I spent a year in combat, with a life expectancy of 12 minutes and not only survived, but helped others make it through. But, I realized that I felt that I had to do that to hide my secret from society and try to deny who I really was.

Two marriages, one of eight years,one of twenty years, three children and seven grandchildren later, I was on the verge of suicide. Sure, I had lived a "normal" life according to society, but I was miserable! I couldn't live a lie another day. So, after 44 years of denying who I really was, I came out to everyone.

My friends and family needed to adjust that the person that they knew as "Bill" was really Billie. I've lost friends of many years, some of my siblings,my children and their children to ignorance and predudice, but I've gained self-respect and respect of those that aren't afraid of accepting a person as another human being.

How does this have any relevance to the topic? Simply by understanding that physical appearance and lifestyle have nothing to do with how the person feels or interacts with others. I know many people that are different, whether they are from the GLBT community or race, religion, handicapped, etc. These things don't make them bad people. It's how they deal with others that count. Now, understanding this, you can understand that being gay, bi, lesbian, transgender or whatever label you put on people still makes them humans...different maybe, but still human.
This allows them to still have the basic desire to become parents. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Sexual orientation is a genetic factor not a choice, contrary to what the fundamental Christians might want you to believe.

When people and governments get past the weird idea that gender has anything to do with anything, this world will be a better place. What you or I have inside our underwear or do behind our bedroom door doesn't have a bit of influence on our fitness as parents. What does influence it is in our hearts. As Dad said over 45 years ago, "Skin us all, we're the same."
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:16 pm
I totally agree with you Sam.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:30 pm
Rick, your poll would have been easier if the question had been
Quote:
Should good people have the right to raise children?


My answer in either case is yes, of course.


Good people aren't defined by gender or orientation, or height or colour or speech pattern, or visual acuity.
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:34 pm
MyOwnusername

Quote:


GLBTs are slightly different genetically than heterosexuals. There are scientific tests that prove this. So GLBT is natural just like blond hair, brown skin or green eyes. Perhaps we are looking at evolution in action.

As far as needing one male and female parent, I do not think that holds water. The whole gender based roll idea is not true. The best nurses I had care for me, while hospitalized, were male. My partner, Billie, who is male to female transgender, is a great homemaker. Traditional male/female rolls are not necessarily accurate.

You may wish to note that on two separate occasions Billie and I have been offered the opportunity to adopt children. Why, because we would have done our best to raise them to be the best people they could be. Is it not best for honest, honorable people to raise open minded children. Then those children can make their own decisions, about sex, gender, religion, politics and everything else.

Sam
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:39 pm
ehBeth

The only thing that really matters is are you a good person. All children are our future. If we teach them hate then that is what our future will hold. If we teach acceptance and understanding...

Sam
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:41 pm
Dianne has declared this a nonissue, but certain states, here in the US, are denying GLBT people the right to adopt. Others are trying to deny us the right to marry another of our own sex. Fundamentalist Christians say, "It's unAmerican!"

Riiiiiiiiiight! Funny that before Columbus, GLBT or Two Spirit people were marrying each other for centuries! Many native cultures considered it "normal" for a man to marry another man that was feminine. Crazy Horse even had a Winkte wife. Yet, no one questions his manliness. Winkte is Lakota for a man than lives as a woman. Literally translated Winkte means, neither man nor woman. Under Lakota tradition, I am considered that even though I am now a woman.

Just recently, Sam and I were offered custody of two young girls, by a native family. Why? Simply because they knew we would raise these with love, understanding and our traditional beliefs. Children learn what they are exposed to. If raised in ignorance or worse yet stupidity (refusal to learn), these children will grow to become like those that raise them.

In time, people will come to understand that everyone is human, but some are more humane in dealing with people than others. GLBT people are just like everyone one else, most decent and caring, but some that aren't. I don't understand Confused how sex or sexual orientation has anything to do with being a good person or not.
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L R R Hood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:44 pm
Sam1951, I do not believe it is genetic. There is no scientific proof of that.

doglover, how can a gay couple conseive? Unnaturally, right?

Poeple have the choice to be whatever they want to be, and I have the choice to feel however I want to feel about that. I wouldn't stand in their way to do anything that is legal... but if it were up to me, I wouldn't let gay people have children... sorry, that's just my opinion.

I know I'm not the only one who feels that way, but I bet those who agree with me would not want to post it openly.
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:47 pm
well, Sam, I don't really think that having male and female parent is actually "gender based roles idea" - it's like that in more or less all animal world - and we are just more developed animals.
As for genders I really don't mind if my nurse, homemaker or boss will be male or female as long as he or she is doing good job.
And as I already said, I don't consider homosexuals immoral, wrong, bad or anything.
I only think that your thoughts sound nice, are nice, and should be universally accepted - but are still not.

Rick - I disagree with you. 99% of population does not have opinion about that issue. 99% of ADULT population does have opinion about that issue. I doubt that there is single, let's say, 3-year old, with opinion about that issue.
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:50 pm
Wiyaka wrote:
I don't understand Confused how sex or sexual orientation has anything to do with being a good person or not.


It absolutely doesn't. I don't think anyone here said it does Confused
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:51 pm
LRRHood,

Are you sure?

Sam

PS: My lawnmower needs repairs and the lawn needs mowing so I'll check in later.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:55 pm
After reading the article it was still unclear to me who the children wanted to stay with. This sentence confused me: "chose not to uphold 'the preferential right of the children to live and grow up in a normally structured and socially reputable family, according to the proper traditional model.'"

Does theat mean the children wanted to be with the mother? I figure if the children were offended by the situation they should have the right to live with their father. But it doesn't seem to apply in this case.

I think i take MOU's view.
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:55 pm
hey! it's my view - give it back to me!! Smile
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Sam1951
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:57 pm
MyOwn...

With most animals the female raises the offspring solo. In fact the females need to keep the males from eating their young. Sure there are pack, pride, and colonial animals and birds are usually male female teams but, most often male animals see small helpless babies as food items.

Sam
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 03:58 pm
Sam, forgive me for not being more articulate. I actually care very much about this topic, as one of my brothers is gay. I used 'non-issue' is the sense that is should be a non-issue---not that it is a non-issue.

Wiyaka, your post was one of the most powerful I've read on a2k. If only I could express myself that well, maybe my posts would be clearer.
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 04:05 pm
Sam, I don't think that it's actually "most" animals. However, i believe it would be really hard (if possible at all) to find animals that raise young in female-female or male-male duo. That's what I was talking about.
But, once again, I am not saying that I would ban it or something...I just don't think that at this time society is developed enough for that. Biological parents is something different (even if single mother finds female partner later), but adoption...as I said, am not sure.
Your choice is to deal with society or not to care about bigots or haters. I think it's fair to change society first and then to put those that haven't choosed anything in such situations.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 04:13 pm
MOU - you can actually find many examples, in nature, of animals whose young are raised by pairs/groups of females only.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 04:24 pm
No - they haven't - you are right - four of them, so far.
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