Being Lesbian in Chile

ossobuco,

Children do not care who cares for them, gay, straight, green with purple polka-dots. They recognize the genuine emotion and know that it is important.

Sounds like your niece has a lot of energy. How old is she?

I have a theory: adults and children have the same amount of energy because children are smaller, it's packed a whole lot tighter.

Sam

Sixteen, sigh, going on seventeen.

ossobuco,

Sweet. Has any taught her about being hormone happy? You know when you really start looking like a woman and your hormones start talking real loud about how nice it would be to get close to some sexy guy.

I don't know about your parents, but mine blew that one off.

Sam

Ha, yes, mine did too. But she is older than than now, as the song says.
Long story, not here and now, as I am getting sleepy....

Sweet dreams ossobuco,

Some other time we can compare our experiences with sex education.

Good night

Sam

I've made a little report recently, something about Sr. Mary Anthony in religion class when I was fourteen, but I forget which Topic that was on.

Closedminded
Pot calling the kettle black?

Sam and Wiyaka - you both put forward really articulate and convincing arguments and come across as lovely people.

I agree that parenting is about caring and being there and that there are a lot of bad heterosexual parents out there - so the criteria for adoption or suitability as in the case of the woman at the start of this thread, should be how good a parent they are and crucially what those children wanted.

Children would be at risk of being picked on because their parents were 'different' but then there are many other forms of difference for which they can be picked on and this is just one - mixed race relationships, very tall, very short, balding, long haired, overweight, illiterate, drunken. mentally ill, different lifestyles ....last of the hippies. very religious, the list goes on ....

About the selfishness of gay people - maybe it is because they are often answerable to no one but themselves? bachelors with a good income who flit from girlfriend to glamorous girlfriend in shallow relationships are equally self absorbed. Such is life and they have that right - I wouldn't think people with this outlook would ever choose to adopt - yet if landed with an orphaned relative they may still make wonderful parents.

A single mum I know has fostered children for years and has made a brilliant job of it, i don't know if she is gay and wouldn't ask but i suspect she may be.

L.L.R.Hood writes


What about hermaphrodites or people born with both sexual organs? Many of them are now fighting Congress because at birth they are forced to undergo an operation which picks their gender for them. In adulthood many of them feel they are female but they are left with their male genitals. That goes the same for many who feel they are male but are forced to live with their female genitals that their parents picked for them. How do you explain those people? If you are born with certain genitals, that doesn't necessarily indicate your sexual orientation.

My earlier question asking for genetic evidence of heterosexuality was not answered. I did not ask for observations or long held western beliefs about sexuality. I was really asking for a scientific study or scientific experiment pointing to genetic markers in your DNA that makes you heterosexual. Can you provide that evidence? Gender identity is not the same as sexual orientation. Like I said, if you are born with certain genitals, that doesn't necessarily indicate your sexual orientation. The existence of hermaphrodites proves that. People are not cut and dry males and females. There are many things we humans do not know about our bodies, our genetic makeup, and our brain functions. Simply doing an outside observation is not concrete scientific proof. It is just the first of many steps you must take to prove your hypothesis. You need scientific experimentation that matches and supports your opinion. Think a little deeper.

Vivien,

Those are excellent points. I wonder if the Judges involved asked the children, who they want to live with. I just reread the article and did not notice the children's ages. Children considered too young would not be either unable to answer or their responses would be deemed irrelevant by the court. I sure hate to think that the parents are using those little ones for revenge. If the father fits the stereo type of South American men the thought of his ex preferring a woman over him would be infuriating.

Sam

yes that is a horrific thought.


The post about wrongly assigned sexuality in babies born with ambiguous sexual organs was a very good point, There was a very sad programme about adults, who felt that the wrong decisions had been made about them at birth and because of surgery it was very difficult to try to right

Does there really need to be a study regarding the genitals we are born with? I have come to the conclusion that people's personalities are more a product of their environment than anything.

LRR

Do you know any hermaphrodites?

Sam

Had a friend (he died a few years back) who was a hermaphrodite. They decided at 13 that he had to be one or the other so they took his/her female organs. He was lost when I knew him and explained it as being a part of him was taken away which he never found later.

HE had three children before he decided he was gay. He got arrest and while in prison was raped by the hetros and got aids - which ultimately killed him. After he got a diagnosis, he abstained from sex for the rest of his life.

His daughters decided they much prefered to live with dad, and did so. This, even though he maintained a good relationship with their mother.

Do I see something wrong in this, yes. Society decided what sex he would be and he was raped by hetro's in prison. Oh well, life goes on

BillW

An astute observation!

Billie is composing a mor lengthly post.

Sam

Fairandbalanced,
Sam and I have a very close brother/sister in Canada that is hermaphrodite. He now lives as a man, though did live as a woman for most of her live, if you follow. Raised primarily as a female, was thrown out of Girl Guides for an "unsightly bulge" in her panties, which was noticed by another as she climbed a tree.

This friend is probably one of the most well adjusted peson we know. He has refused "reconstructive surgery", even when offered. Why? To quote him, "I have the best of both worlds." Sam and I feel the same about ourselves.

Vivien,
Thanks for the compliments. We understand how hard many children have it, with both of us having survived physical and psychological abuse from our mothers and spouses. Yes, even I was abused by my second wife! However, the people that abused us as children were great teachers...in how not to treat children. After all, we learn from everyone.

We aren't allowed to visit or be in contact with my three children (their choice, not ours) and seven grandchildren, because of our lifestyle, but kids flock to us everywhere we go. Last month, we visited family on the Pine Ridge reservation , in South Dakota. One 10 year old neice heard our voices and ran to give us hugs. While at my sisters graduation from seminary a week later, my sisters daughter of 20 did the same. I have "favorite auntie" status and hear things about her life, she'd never tell her mom, my sister.

Sam says I'm a "kid magnet" and has threatened to take me to the Mall of America (150 miles away) to prove this. She wants me to start at one end of a hallway and will count the children she has to peel off of me. Personally, I think she exaggerates just a bit, but even children in stores or restaurants look at me and smile. When I smile back, they break into a grin.

Why do we feel so strongly about children? Simple. Children are the future, plain and simple. Elders say, "Watch and learn from the children. They are closer to the Creator than us, having come so recently from the Spirit World compared to us, who have been in this physical world for so long. They can teach us."

Traditional Lakotas and other Native American nations try to think seven generations ahead. What will we leave our children, their children, our great grandchildren, their great,great grandchildren? Will it be a legacy of greed, selfishness, violence, arrogance or generousity, respect for others, humility, peace and helpfulness? These are things we try to teach others to consider.

We also have to remember that what we say or do may have a major impact, not only on a child's life, but on others. I'll give an example. I came across an auntie of a Dene (Navajo) that I'd stayed with at a pow wow back in July, 1977. After getting brought up on family matters, she said that I was a topic of a family discussion, just a few weeks before. I was puzzled and asked her about this. She explained how I had shown children at that pow wow to mix basic paint colors to make another one, like purple, pink, brown and so on. Two of those children became so interested that one is now a college art professor and the other, a grade school art teacher. So, we never know how others will be affected by our words or actions.

BillW,

Hang in there friend, things work out the way they are supposed to. We say, "Nothing happens without a reason." It may be a great learning experience for your son, in the long run. If he goes into the military, he will have the option we didn't, he can quit in training. That choice is his. Tough love isn't easy, but it is love.

You aren't the first one to go through this. All of my children have quit school. Both girls got married young. One was seventeen, the other was sixteen. I tried it when my son quit school and wanted to live with me. He'd left his mom's home and didn't want to go to school. "I want to get a job and have my own place. Then I can do what I want." With me it was school or he was on his own. Three years of struggling eventually forced him to get his high school diploma and an AA in electronic technology. he now, is married for the second time and works as a foreman of a cable company.

Bill, regarding your friend, I'm sorry for your loss. It must have been horrible for him to be operated on! Our hermaphrodite friend was allowed to choose and chose not to have it done. He is only 4'10" tall...out of the wheelchair. He was too, was raped...gang-raped while living as a woman. He also came down with AIDS as a result of it. He decided it was safer to live as a man. Now, he's in final stages and has been unable to ingest any fluids or food. For over 13 years of his 33, he's dedicated himself to the Canadian Aboriginal AIDS movement. He's accepted this as just another part of himself, but is a great role model of strength and faith in the Creator for us. He's in a platonic relationship with someone that he loves, but understands the risks of going beyond what he has with this woman.

Wiyaka, My friend went to jail for marijuana. He too came to the point of not being able to eat. He got state sponsored marijuana. What irony. He was Cherokee BTW. I have a sculpture he did of his daughter, he lives in that sculpture

l bet he lives in the sculpture. All artists and craftspeople put something of themselves into their work. I always nick my skin and bleed onto the pipestone or pipe stem, whenever I make a Sacred Pipe for someone. I call it my flesh offering. Sam's gotten used to it, though and it's never serious.

Leave it to the government to bust someone for a government santioned medication. They know that if used moderately, in the morning, that it it promotes appettite,ie: the munchies! Must be suffering from that Crainal-anal Syndrome. You know, head up one's bum. We've heard about that stuff happening to others, but some were selling some on the side too.

Actually, the arrest happen before. Then he went to prison and got aids. The irony was that the government then supplied marijuana later. He got the script, but not pharmacy would fill it. He finally found one that would work mail order.

BillW

We live in an insane society. Damned if I know why. Too many people, not enough understanding, groundless opinion being taken as fact, all of the above, sound like contributing factors to me.
I'm just an old Flower Child trying to spread a little Peace, Love and Understanding, what do I know.

Sam