Being Lesbian in Chile

His silence speaks volumes.


L.L.R.Hood writes


Well, part of being able to keep your children, when you are fighting for them in court, is proving that you can be a good parent. Duh! What a shock! If a mother was fighting for her child in court and all she does is state her need to keep her child, that is clearly not enough for the judge. Any intelligent defense will bring up the subject of her good ability to raise that child.

All within your own family Bill? :wink:

L.L.R.Hood must have missed this post. :wink:

L.L.R.Hood writes,


Can you tell me where is your concrete scientific proof that heterosexuality is genetic? I would like to know. Homosexuality may not have concrete proof that it is genetic but there is also no proof that it is not genetic.

Oh yes, of course. I can't even tell what some of them are

I can only vouch for myself and my wife

But, in all seriousness, it doesn't bother me - choice belongs to the individual; not society. In this case, society is even trying to dictate birth rights

A homosexual person is someone who is sexually attracted to others of the same sex. They feel the very same kind of attraction to the same sex as heterosexuals feel about the opposite sex. While it's true there are some people who freely choose this behavior as a form of "life style", that accounts for a very small population of homosexuals. Some would argue that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but I believe this behavior is the result of genetic variation.

An example can be made of how retarded people, who by no action of their own, are born comparatively slow or deficient in mental, physical, or emotional growth. Homosexual people are therefore entitled to engage in sexual behavior consistent with their genetic makeup so long as it is between consenting adults. To deny them this right would be the same as denying heterosexuals their right to consensual sex. Some would argue that sexuality is strictly for the purpose of reproduction...yet the animal kingdom has many variations of reproduction.

Human beings are sexual beings as was intended by God when He created us. And to suggest that a genetic variation of nature somehow makes homosexuals less human is unkind and evil.

doglover, fairandbalanced has been trying to get LRR to answer that question about HETEROsexuality for some time. An interesting angle on the question.

Well, if there is no scientific grounds for someone being heterosexual (such as, hummm, I dunno, sexual organs that are a part of our bodies) then there is no scientific grounds for someone being homosexual.

Are you happy now? I disregarded the question because I thought it was silly. Thanks for the PM ...

And maybe you all can take the focus off of me... You aren't going to change my opinion, sorry.

funny, that's just what I wanted to write about my post before everybody got on LRRH. I would only choose "their" instead of "his"

Wow! All these posts are fantastic in content and quality. It is late at night here right now and I just logged in briefly after being out spending money I don't really have.. such is student eistence. Thanks to the nice people who responded to me personally...I really have to go to bed now as I have an important exam in the morning on which my future hangs! :-) I will log in again tomorrow and make some pertinent comments about this topic. It's so interesting to get the American slant on all this. Goodnight everyone....see you tomorrow the 9th. Take care!

Oh, before I go to Slumberland, I would just like to say this. I would imagine it's the same in the USA (which is a much more religious country than is the UK) but it's amazing how otherwise irreligious people suddenly break out into Bible-speak whenever homosexuality is mentioned! The Bible and God are immediately brought into the conversation and all the homophobic texts that exist in the "Holy Book" are quoted. All these people are amazingly fervently religious all of a sudden. It never happens when far more serious issues (to my mind at least) are focused on, such as murder, rape, stealing or any other crime. Just homosexuality! That I find so strange and hypocritical.

An unnamed woman in Chile has lost her children because she is a lesbian. The question posed is "Should gay couples have the right to raise children?"
I have known for most of my life that I am, for want of a better term bisexual. Now that I have gone back to my Lakota roots the dreams and visions I have had and still have make sense. Just like Billie I tried for 49 years to be a "straight". I have tried 3 times to be a wife. It did not work because, I am too male to be female and too female to be male. Now I have a partner who is in many respects just like me, now it works.
My 3rd husband had 2 children with his previous wife. She was and probably is an alcoholic. She also had custody of the children because my ex did not think the courts would award them to him.
At our Wedding I joked with them about being a "wicked step-mother". We laughed about "punishing" them for good behavior by giving special treats and privileges.
The children visited us on alternate weekends. They would arrive on Friday evening wearing dirty clothes in need of mending. Their elbows, Kneed and knuckles were gray. It made me sick to see those children arrive in that state. The first visit I washed and mended their clothes and scrubbed them clean. When they arrived, in the same state, 2 weeks later I made up my mind that they needed someone to really care for them.
I bought good second hand clothes, the same as I wear. I bought books, toys and games for them to play with, and I taught. There was personal hygiene 101, basic cooking skills, how to launder clothes, I worked my butt off to teach those children basic life skills with little or no help from their father.
We had a routine, Friday evening, first home work, second help cook dinner third baths and bed time with stories to put them to sleep. Saturday and Sunday were work and fun days, tidy the house do the yard work and then lots of play or family outings. The routine stayed the same and so did the rules, 100% stability.
After a couple of years of this fairly happy situation the visits stopped. There were excuses, they were sick, they were at the cabin or visiting other family. Then the truth came out, their step-father had sexually molested the girl. She was 10 years old at the time. I can not begin to tell you how I felt but I think you can imagine what it was like.
Their father did nothing. Finally the children were allowed to visit us again. There was no schedule for these visits. Wherever their mother wanted to get rid of them she sent them to us. About 3 years later the boy asked if he could come live with his father. We had told them all along that living with us was always an option, all they had to do was ask. We discussed with the children what it would be like to live with us. They both said they wanted this to happen. The girl backed out never giving any reasons. The boy moved in the day school ended for the year. He lived with us for 5 years until after his 18th birthday.
When the girl chose to stay with her mother I knew what would happen. I wish I had been wrong. Her first child was born just after her 14th birthday. The last I heard she had 3 children, all by different fathers, and had never married. She has had 2 of the children removed from her custody for reasons of neglect and abuse.
The boy went through all of the teenage ups and downs with a few interesting twists. His birthday is December 31st , New Years Eve. The child had never had a birthday party in 13 years. I asked him if he wanted a "kid party" or a "family party", he opted for family. We pulled out all the stops. He chose the food and helped design and send out invitations, it was great to see him so excited and happy.
With us his grades improved. He and friends came and went for meals and overnights, in short he got to be a normal, happy, healthy kid.
I even had to give him the "birds and bees" talk, his father was too embarrassed. He played his favorite Rapp song for us, it was raw sex with a snappy beat. "Do you understand what they are saying and do you agree with it?" I asked. He replied yes, on both counts. The gist of what I told him was, I do not approve of children having sexual relations but, I do understand that it can happen. If you care enough about someone to have sex with them then you should care enough to prevent the transmission of STDs or pregnancy. Be responsible for your own actions., and don't be sneaky. Do not do anything you are ashamed of. A year or so later I found him in bed with his first love. I have to give them credit, neither was embarrassed.
For about 4 months before he turned 18 things fell apart. He skipped school, stayed out beyond his curfew or neither came home or called. I was not a happy camper but, I kept my cool. I would explain, patiently, that we all had rules for a reason, and that everyone living in the house needed to follow "house rules" for the house to run smoothly. Not calling, I told him, made us worry about his safety and well being. He would grudgingly agree and then do what he pleased. A couple of months after his 18th birthday and I had "a talk". Either help around the house and life by "house rules" or move out. He claimed I was throwing him out. I said no it is your decision. He moved out, leaving most of his belongings and his room a disaster area.
About a year and a half later his father received a letter form him. He wanted his father back in his life. He thanked us for giving him what he really needed not what he wanted. Best of all he apologized for all the worry and problems he caused. Wow! My step-son grew up all right after all. I want you to understand, all I did was to give him information and options. All of the choices were his.
He and his lady, a woman of color I am pleased to say, have a son. He works at a local bank and seems to be doing well at his job. From what I have heard the both of them are making sound financial and personal decisions. I am proud of both of them and like to think I had some influence on this fine outcome.
Did I want or need those children? No, I did not, they needed a caring, loving, nurturing adult. There was a job to do and I stepped up and did it. Do I love those children? Yes, I do. I think of them every day. The girl with sorrow because, I did not have much of an opportunity to help direct her life along a hopefully better path. The boy I think of with optimism. He appears to have started out well I hopes it keeps getting better.
Please note I did just all of the parenting for my ex's son. He, my ex, was not and may never be able to parent a child. The poor man is too involved in his own psychological and emotional problems to have a stable long term relationship with any one.
You don't have to be of any sexual orientation to raise a child, you just have to give it everything you've got. Children are our future, what else do we have. If we raise children to see all people as equal then equality for all will one day be reality, not just a wonderful dream. Will a same sex couple and their child/children face additional challenges, yes. Is it possible to overcome them, again yes and help change the world at the same time. There will always be some people who have a picture of GLBT people so fixed in their minds that they see what they believe not what is really there. That's Ok too, everyone has a right to believe what they want. We can not use these beliefs of formulate laws. Laws and their enforcement must be based on the equality of all human beings not on the "uck factor".

The reason I did not use either my ex's or the children's names is that every bit is true and I wish to protect their anonymity. Thank you for your understanding.

Sam

Broadslad,

Interesting thing about the Bible is the number of times it has been revised. I understand that all of the people doing those revisions claim to have been directed by God. Being suspicious by nature I question this Divine direction. IMO many of those revising Holy Scripture followed their own agendas. Yes indeed, I think they codified their own "uck factors" and told everyone that they are God's own words.
What do you think?

Sam

IMO, for someone that claims to be "openminded" in their profile, you seem to just little closeminded.

Thanks Sam - well said and much appreciated

BillW

Which one?

Sam

The long one sweetheart, it was touching

Sam, it sounds like you're a good parent. The kind everyone needs to have. Someone who cares.

I will put a little of my own - my third wife whom I live with now an adore has three children. She was in a relation with a man and two other women plus nine children and one on the way. There was terrific abuse including mental, physical and sexual from the father.

In fact, he is doing about 20 years right now for sexually abusing the eldest daughter - even though there was signs of him abusing others. We have had all three of ours in and out of therapy throughout. He will tell you he is totally hetro - and a good 100% neocon.

Anyway, our son is a certifiable genius who will do nothing. He is 18, a senior this year and can not graduate. He would probably tell you I kicked him out, but he moved out under similar circumstances as with you Sam. I created a home for him to grow, learn and advance in. He would not obey the rules and knew if he didn't he shape up and go to school he would have to leave. Consequences, not discipline. Also, we can't allow his attitude to effect the two girls (13 and 16)!

He has since been charged for bad checks and gone through 3 other homes (8 months). He wants to go to the Navy in January so our hopes are high. First, he must graduate this summer.

BTW Sam, it takes a very sweet heart for what you have done. I hope ours blossoms too

ehBeth,

Thanks I just did my best, my step-son did the real work of making good decisions.

BillW,

My heart goes out to you. Money spent on raising a child is nothing compared to the thought and emotion expended on "doing it right". When you see someone like you son seem to throw it all away it tears you up. You keep asking yourself, what did I do wrong, what should I have done differently, knowing that you did your best. Then when you least expect it a truly good person pops out like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon. I hope your son manages to graduate and enlist. Military service can really be a life changing experience.
If he chooses to remain in his cocoon, please do not blame yourself. For some people it takes a mountain of mistakes before they learn. I am sure my Dad, Grandmother and many Teachers despaired of my becoming much of anything. Now look at me a happy, well adjusted queer. :wink:
I will add you and your family to my prayers.

All my best to all of you and yours, now and forever

Sam

My heart goes out to BillW and your wife and .. your son. Time will tell, I support your way of loving him.

And to you, Sam. These matters don't follow and even line, but your boy is to be holding strong.

I am a strong person in my niece's life, but she is a thousand miles away from me now. Still, I have had a big influence on who she is (and she would agree if you could catch her to talk to.) A bit off subject, since I am not GLBT, but hey, we here act the same.