Being Lesbian in Chile

Well, your words express what I think too.

ehBeth,

You are the loveliest and most youthful tri-centenarian I know. What is your secret? No don't tell me, I would only share it and then it wouldn't be a secret any more. :wink:

Seriously, 23 individuals out of the 700 million GLBTs in the world is something like 3.28%. I don't consider that to be a fair sampling. I, like you, know many more really decent GLBTs than stereotypic ones. In fact most of my GLBT friends look and act like everyone else, well usually nicer.
Those lucky or persistent enough to have children are super parents. Not the kind that shower their children with all the latest toys and clothes but real loving, caring parents. (sigh) In fact they are a lot like my Dad.

Perhaps you can help me understand society's loathing of GLBTs. Sure some of the Queens come off as loud, overly dressed and overly made-up parodies of loud overly dressed and overly made-up women. Then there the "bull dykes" that ooze testosterone all over their studded black leather and chains. Two minority groups that are part of another minority, yet because they stand out many people think we are all like that. Ha! catch me wearing studs and chains, I don't think!
It's not as though every gay male wants to be sexually intimate with every other male they see. I surely do not drool over every woman I see.
In fact when I see a person male or female I think, "I hope they have someone who loves them as much as I love Billie." We don't want to convert the rest of the world or lure children into sordid sexual liaisons. We are pretty much like everyone else. So what's the big deal?

Anyone else who knows why GLBTs are on society's TS list please feel free to join in. I would really like to know.

Sam

How do you count the number of GLBT people you know? And once they're "counted", do they fulfill the expectations you hold for them?

I'd be willing to bet we all know people of many orientations, and don't have a clue. All we can use to make judgments with is what we're shown or told...

Myself, I know good people I want to be friends with, and people I'd rather not be around. I know that some in each group are GLBT because they've let me know, not because they exhibit some trait or another...

People who want to put in the effort to raise children to be the best adults they can be are too rare to waste. The people who should be discouraged from having children are the ones who have no desire to nurture them; those who have children to make a point or to gain some economic or social advantage.

Wy,

My ex-husband is one of eight children. His parents did not have children, they had farmhands. From the day they could do chores they all worked their butts off. None of those children received one bit of useful education from their parents. They could do what ever the pleased to one another. Talking back to a parent or not doing chores were the only things for which they were punished.
I left him because of the constant verbal abuse and attempts to shred my self-esteme. The poor guy grew up in a house filled with viciousness and anger. I tried for 17 years to help him. He refused to go for counseling. He will probably never be anything but a hurt and angry man.

I am so glad that I had my Dad and his Mom to help me grow up. They gave me the best gifts a parent can give, their time, understanding, respect and love.


Sam

Sam,
I'm sorry you lived through that for so long. My own dad and mom gave me the kind of unconditional love and caring tutelage that all children deserve; I've tried to do that with my own baby-child.

Maybe that's why I'm single now; I just don't find that sort of adult in my life right now...

Best to you and Billie, and to Mitch Walkin Elk -- his words make a lot of sense to me right now.

I get a thought of the day from HoHawk (thank to Quinn for the original hook-up, HoHawk's become a good e-friend)

today's was particularly interesting in light of this discussion

Wy,

It's that I refuse to quit. I could see a very good man under all of the garbage. He, on the other hand, could see only the garbage.

Sometimes a person needs to be single, usually it's a special time for reflection and growth. I tend to use my time alone for mental make-overs and personal assessment. You may be busy creating the person you want to be.

Your baby is fortunate to have you. Not every parent is honest enough to step back when they are not ready to do the job. Like the Elders say, "When the time is right you will know." I'm sending you zen hugs.

As for Mitch, he is a great person. I know both Mitch and his wife Diane, she was the secretary for the Mendota Dakota Band in Minnesota. If you like the tiny bit of This One's For The People, the title song from the album, it may be available through the Mendota Dakota office. Their phone # 651-452-4141

My best to you now and in the future

ehBeth,

The Lakota consider Winkte (gay men) to be sacred. Sunka Witko (Crazy Horse) had a Winkte wife. Both the Winkte and Wioptula are still honored and respected by traditional Lakota and many other traditional Native Americans. Yet here we sit and discus the fitness of GLBTs to care for and raise children. Ironic?

Sam

It never fails to amaze me that so many diverse societies held homosexual men and women in as much esteem as any other member of the society.

How has it come to be that a gay young man can be brutally murdered and have the murder celebrated? Why can't anyone who has the desire to be the best parent possible be denied his or her own children just because of sexual orientation?Homophobia is an indication of a sickness in society rather than in the individual.

My brother is both gay and mentally retarded. His ability to keep going despite the taunts and ridicule as well as the brutality of institutions, has always been one of my greatest inspirations. As Sam said, nothing will change until people are willing to stand up and fight for what is right.

Broadslad, I forgot to welcome you to a2k--welcome!! I'll be looking forward to more posts from you.

Diane,

Give your brother a big hug from Billie and me. He is indeed an inspiration to everyone. It is difficult to be true to one's self in the face of ridicule.
Too many people see difficulties as reasons to give up or not to try at all. Every difficulty faced is a chance to grow and an opportunity for change.

We do live in a sick society. Murder is murder no mater who the victim is. The demand for justice should be the same.
The leading cause of death among GLBTs is suicide followed by murder and then disease. We kill ourselves because we have been told by society that we are defective and bad people. Others kill us for the same reasons. Why should GLBTs be concerned about contracting AIDS from unsafe sexual relations or dirty needles, after all we have been told for centuries that we are filth and deserve no less.
This homophobia, the fear and hatred of people who are different is alien to me. I have always enjoyed meeting new people and experiencing other cultures. admittedly, I do not agree with every custom or practice but as long as the harm no one, who am I to criticize. It is when I see people being hurt for no good reason that I become angry. All the lies, ridicule and denigration must come from somewhere. I would truly love to find the source and put a stop to it, to cap that well of hatred and seal it off forever.

During WWII a SeaBee in the South Pacific painted this on a quonset hut: "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer."

Sam

That's absolutely correct. If you read my posts you will note that I mentioned that several times too. As well as being necessary to actually stand up and "fight" on every possible level that doesn't include violence.
We do, however, have one major difference.
My belief is that children should not be involved in this fight ON ANY LEVEL until this fight is won or close to be won.

I totally respect your right (talking in plural now, not to just Diane) to disagree. However, it does bother me a bit that I haven't read one post in response to my opinion that showed full respect for my opinion. You are all extremelly full of love, compassion and humanity when talking/writing to people that think exactly the same as you do.
But, it's enough that someone is not homophob at all, have no prejudice towards homosexuals at all, does not even think about issue of gay/lesbian marriages because he doesn't see any issue in it, BUT also thinks that children should be left out of it until some other fights are won - and posts will not be so full of nice, beautiful thoughts and universal love and respect for differences.

Short note for those that joined this topic later and have no time or nerves to read all 4 pages ----- my opinion is based ONLY on problems children might and in most societies would have, and ONLY in issue of adoption. Never said or thought that homosexuals can't be good parents, never said or thought that I would take child from biological parent of any orientation, never said or thought that anything is wrong with having homosexual for a parent

I will rephrase myself slightly - that works for huge majority of responses, I can't say that there was not a single one without respect.

And... I realized that those were your responses, and my thoughts remain the same.

I only counted the number of gay people I've known to let you know, not because I keep up with that kind of thing. I never said it was a fair sampling, but my personal experience is all I have to go on... I never said these people were horrible or awful... They had many great qualities, but we weren't talking about them being friends, we were talking about them being parents.

I'm starting to wonder just what I could say that would satisfy you all. Is there anything? What if I knew ALL gay people, and held the same conclusion? I bet you would then think there was something wrong with me, huh? This is why the other NO voters didn't post... there is no point in explaining, obviously.

You are not helping my view of gay people by the way you are discussing this.

Well, yes. I WOULD assume you are extremely pessimistic and unfriendly if you came to the same conclusion after knowing ALL the gay people (or any other group of people for that matter). Those gay people would includes people I know and other people here know that are kind and sharing, not self-centered and difficult. Help has to come from within you, if you are already convinced about your views and won't budge, then so be it.

None so blind as those who will not see.....

;but, claim to exist in the blinding light.....

L.L.R.Hood writes,


Just where did you find these homosexual acquaintances or friends of yours? The local sex club perhaps?
Open your eyes for once. Ooooh. What a concept!
Homosexuals are everywhere. They come in all flavors (good, bad, stuck-up, loving, generous, etc.) just like heterosexuals. Commonsense should tell you that just as you are different from other heterosexuals, the same thing applies to homosexuals.

L.L.R.Hood must have missed this post. :wink:

L.L.R.Hood writes,


Can you tell me where is your concrete scientific proof that heterosexuality is genetic? I would like to know. Homosexuality may not have concrete proof that it is genetic but there is also no proof that it is not genetic.

I fully believe there are at least 6, maybe as many as 10 distinct genders........