26
   

THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT HERE . . .

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:21 am
. . . is, in my never humble opinion, evolution. We get the occasional true believer (in creationism), but mostly, right now, we've just got trolls. We have one long-term member who attacks the idea of evolution on a regular basis, but who does not act like a troll (just a willfully blind idiot). But mostly, right now, the subject is being beaten to death by trolls. We have been over this topic again and again for a decade, too. Even the political threads can't match this topic for the sheer volume of manure being spread.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 26 • Views: 10,273 • Replies: 249

 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:24 am
@Setanta,
Needless to say, it's in no way controversial to me.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:56 am
I doubt that it's controversial for most people here--but it draws trolls like garbage draws flies.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 09:29 am
It's fascinating, the lengths these trolls will go to. I tire of them much faster than many members, apparently, because I put them on ignore after a fairly short time, while others post hundreds of rebuttals.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 10:25 am
Obviously the word "troll" is being used here to mean, "Someone who dares to mention anything other than what we want mentioned."

It is the kind of thinking I can easily tolerate in people devoted to Creationism, but it is pathetic when it comes from those who should know better.

Although there are some disruptive trolls posting on the subject, it is my opinion that most of the complaints about "trolling" are nonsense...nothing more than "agree with me or you are a troll."

In any case, there are some who assert there is no possibility of intelligent design. That is as laughable as the assertion that creationism is the answer to how we humans got to be humans.
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 11:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
So here we go with a thousand posts by frank about we are too sensitive about trolling. I wonder why that is.
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 11:37 am
@Setanta,
Yes, Evolution and Creationism do seem to be the most controversial subjects around. And I think this was the case even before the rise of Internet discussion boards, where it is now even more on display.

I think there are a combination of characteristics which make this discussion particularly compelling...

First of all, it's emotional. The implications of evolution are a threat to one of the simplest arguments for a deity: That there is no better explanation.

Secondly it's a discussion in which the core disagreements and means of discourse are philosophical: Naturalism versus Supernaturalism. Yet these elements are rarely addressed at the head of the argument. Instead it's the implication of each philosophy which are compared. Because of this, the viewpoints are never really able to connect which results in an endless series of near-misses in the discussion.

This is also an area of discussion which is counter intuitive until you actually understand the evolutionary process. Once you understand it the conclusions become obvious and inescapable, but until you understand it, especially if you are resisting understanding because it's emotionally disturbing, then it seems impossible.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 11:40 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

So here we go with a thousand posts by frank about we are too sensitive about trolling. I wonder why that is.


Nope...I've said it all right there:

Obviously the word "troll" is being used here to mean, "Someone who dares to mention anything other than what we want mentioned."

It is the kind of thinking I can easily tolerate in people devoted to Creationism, but it is pathetic when it comes from those who should know better.

Although there are some disruptive trolls posting on the subject, it is my opinion that most of the complaints about "trolling" are nonsense...nothing more than "agree with me or you are a troll."

In any case, there are some who assert there is no possibility of intelligent design. That is as laughable as the assertion that creationism is the answer to how we humans got to be humans.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 11:44 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Yes, Evolution and Creationism do seem to be the most controversial subjects around. And I think this was the case even before the rise of Internet discussion boards, where it is now even more on display.

I think there are a combination of characteristics which make this discussion particularly compelling...

First of all, it's emotional. The implications of evolution are a threat to one of the simplest arguments for a deity: That there is no better explanation.

Secondly it's a discussion in which the core disagreements and means of discourse are philosophical: Naturalism versus Supernaturalism. Yet these elements are rarely addressed at the head of the argument. Instead it's the implication of each philosophy which are compared. Because of this, the viewpoints are never really able to connect which results in an endless series of near-misses in the discussion.

This is also an area of discussion which is counter intuitive until you actually understand the evolutionary process. Once you understand it the conclusions become obvious and inescapable, but until you understand it, especially if you are resisting understanding because it's emotionally disturbing, then it seems impossible.


Once you understand the process...all you do is to "understand the process."

Just as the Creationists are hard-headed about their side of the issue...the other side is just as hard-headed in refusing to acknowledge that "if there is the possibility of a GOD...there is the possibility of intelligent design." (The intelligent design might be "the process.")

And any talk about the "probability" or "likelihood" of a GOD existing or not existing...is nothing but blind guessing.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:22 pm
Anyone, no matter how foolish, no matter how repugnant his ideas, should be allowed to post here (which I know that none of you are denying). However, I see no benefit whatever in allowing trolls to continue to post. In my opinion, the decision not to eliminate Q is a foolish decision. He is a classic troll and simply wants to call attention to himself by provoking people. He has caused nothing but annoyance here and has never contributed a single thing. I strongly suspect that this will continue to be true. Also, engaging him in conversation in any way is absolutely counterproductive.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:29 pm
Troll is used here in its classic internet meaning of someone who is, basically, an attention whore, who wants to dominate the conversation, who wants the thread to be about them. Now, as an example, Gunga Dim brings up evolution all the time. I do not consider him to be a troll. He does not attempt to dominate the conversation, and he doesn't try to make it all about himself.

I've already mentioned that we do get the true believers from time to time. However, in recent months, this topic has been dominated by people who truly are trolls--they are here whoring for attention, and they attempt to dominate the conversation. They respond to every post, whether addressed to them or not, and if they can't get anyone to talk to them, then they respond to their own posts.

It has nothing to do with whether or not one agrees with the point of view of the person posting.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:31 pm
@rosborne979,
I really would never have been able to say how controversial the topic is until the age of the internet. Before i began to post online, the subject never came up for me. Even in the early years of posting online, the sites i visited had few, and in some cases no discussions of evolution. From my perspective, this is a new phenomenon.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:51 pm
@Setanta,
To be honest: I've never thought that this could be worth discussing - I was confronted with it for the very first time here (aside from reading historical sources).
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeah, me too--i'm with EB here, i more and more quickly come to ignore the trolls when it becomes obvious that they're just here to rant, and for the attention whoring.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:29 pm
Quote:
It has nothing to do with whether or not one agrees with the point of view of the person posting.


http://bigmouthbarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/horse.jpg

Most of the time...it has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not "one" agrees with the point of view of the person being called a "troll."

And here in this thread...that is exactly what it "has to do with."
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:39 pm
@Setanta,
Unfortunately I've seen it before. Part of my extended family is southern baptist, and this used to come up when I was a child, well before the Internet. Also the schools in the south (more so than in the north, but not exclusively) are constantly under pressure to follow the "christian" path even if it's not openly acknowledged.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:47 pm
@rosborne979,
Fortunately, i was never exposed to that. I lived in the South for many years, both as an adolescent and again as an adult. It just never came up. I didn't have strongly religious family members, though.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 04:52 pm
@Setanta,
I think it is bonsai kitten.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 05:30 pm
@Linkat,
You're back to that again? And, after all these years.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 05:36 pm
@Setanta,
I think the rape threads are particularly contentious. They seem to bring on more outrage and debate than just about any other topic.
0 Replies
 
 

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