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How To Solve The Problem Of Terrorist Islam?

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Moishe3rd
 
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 07:53 am
How do you solve the problem of Terrorist Islam?
The latest news from around the globe reports that the Muslims that Murder are continuing their unceasing war.

The attacks and murders in Saudi Arabia are simply the latest depredations committed by what I prefer to call Islamic Fascist Death Cultists.
Others use different names that don't seem quite so harsh such as Radical Islamists; Islamo-fascists; Radical Islamic Fundamentalists; etcetera, but the term Islamic Fascist Death Cultists narrows the focus to single out only those that both believe Islam should be the only religion in the world and those who are willing to murder and die for Allah in order to achieve this end.

The criminal actions executed by this large minority group of Muslims in the named of their avowed goals to rid all ostensibly Islamic areas of all influences that do not coincide with their particular take on Islam (such as Sunni Wahhabism or the Shia Iranian cult, Wilayat Al-Faqih - "Rule of the Jurist") seem to be unceasing; relentless; and they seem to be more committed to their goals than the non-Islamic world is to stopping them.

They continue to murder and die in Iraq; Saudi Arabia; Pakistan; Israel; Afghanistan; Russia; Spain; not to mention the occasional homicides in France; Indonesia; the Philippines; China; etcetera; etcetera.

It is my opinion that these people are Never going to stop.

So, what's the answer?

And please, while nuking Riyadh or Tehran may feel good, it is not a solution.
Nor is withdrawing completely from all world affairs; oil fields; and anything that displeases the Death Cultists. These are not people who will stop committing their heinous crimes simply because we surrender.

I would propose that Islam has to reform itself. But I see no signs of it doing so, nor do I even perceive that a large, serious group of Muslims sees the necessity for doing so.
But, if that is the answer, then how do we convince Islam to reform itself?
(Other than killing as many bad guys as we can. That is only satisfying in the short run. How do we get the mullahs and sheiks and "presidents" and dictators and clerics, etcetera to stop the bad guys and reform themselves?)
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 08:01 am
Quote:

Islamic Fascist Death Cultists.


This is the best racist rant we have had in a long time!

Bravo!
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 08:18 am
On reading Moishe's rant again, I thought it sounded mighty familiar. Then I remember that I heard a slightly different version in the 1930's.

Quote:

The attacks and murders are simply the latest depredations committed by what I prefer to call Zionist murderers.
Others use different names that don't seem quite so harsh such as Radical Zionists; Jew-fascists; Radical Jewish Fundamentalists; etcetera, but the term Zionist Death Cultists narrows the focus to single out only those that both believe Jews should control the world and those who are willing to murder and die in order to achieve this end.

The criminal actions executed by this large minority group of Jews in the named of their avowed goals to rid all ostensibly Jewish areas of all influences that do not coincide with their particular take on Judaism (such as Chasidim and Mitnagdim or the Lubavich cult, ) seem to be unceasing; relentless; and they seem to be more committed to their goals than the non-Jewish world is to stopping them.


It is incredible that people think that changing a few words makes their bigotry somehow acceptable.

It is sad that many people didn't learn the lessons of the 20th century.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 08:21 am
George W. Bush kills innocent people in the name of Democracy and Christian values! That makes it OK, right?
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Jim
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 08:38 am
EBrown - may I point out that Muslims are from every nationality and ethnic group in the world, just as Christians are. Also, not all Arabs are Muslims. There are many Christian Arabs.

Moishe's postings may be many things, but racist isn't one of them.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 09:01 am
Jim wrote:
EBrown - may I point out that Muslims are from every nationality and ethnic group in the world, just as Christians are. Also, not all Arabs are Muslims. There are many Christian Arabs.

Moishe's postings may be many things, but racist isn't one of them.


I don't want to quibble about terms.

Moishe's post is bigoted and hateful.

Let's leave it at that.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 09:28 am
Okay, I give.
Why is my post bigoted and hateful?
I mean, I suppose I could do bigoted and hateful, but that was not my intent.
I was trying to be accurate and precise.
I assume that you disagree with the premise EB.
That is to say you don't think that people from a particular subsect of a particular religious group use murder and terror to try and intimidate those not of a particular subsect of a particular religious group in order to fullfill their goals of their particular subsect of a particular religious group should make the rules by which other people must obey?
If you indeed don't believe that these people are doing the world harm and they are a problem, then what is it that is going on with all of these religious subsect people???
Just curious.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:20 am
Your post is bigoted and hateful because you use a very narrow world view to demonize a group of people.

This is the very definition of bigotry. Consider these other historical examples of bigotry.

- The anti-semetic propaganda that led up to World War II. The Jews were portrayed as murderous and conniving. As I noted before, your rhetoric is nearly identical to the anti-semetic screes of the past. All you have done is change the targets.

- The racist propaganda against the blacks. Blacks were portrayed as sex-starved and violent. This allowed many white Americans to justify their own superiority.

- The portrayal of Native Americans as "Savages" and "Drunks". This propaganda allowed another of the long strings of ethnic cleansing that often are a result of the type of bigotry inherent in your post.

- There are many other examples including invective against the Gypsies and Chinese and others. All of these examples of bigotries played on cheap fear and half-truths.

Your viewpoint is the same thing with a new victim. You start with a bigoted premise and then use a very simplistic view of current conflicts to back it up. This is the exact same thing that happened in each of the examples above.

The greatest crimes of history were commited by people with a simplistic worldview who played on public fears to demonize an ethnic group.

Frankly, it is you who scares me the most.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:47 am
What I find interesting, is that Moishe3rd connects this minority of these Islamic fundamentalists (or "Islamic Fascist Death Cultists" if you like) with something huge like "reform of Islam".
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Ibn kumuna
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 12:01 pm
Re: How To Solve The Problem Of Terrorist Islam?
Moishe3rd wrote:
How do you solve the problem of Terrorist Islam?
The latest news from around the globe reports that the Muslims that Murder are continuing their unceasing war.


This seems to be your niche. Unfortunately you have a narrow and vivid view of what's actually taking place. There "is" no pan-Islamic renegade against the world. Muslims have been, and thus are, divided amongst themselves on a lot of issues, and contemporary terrorism is no exception. Muslims have different views about jihad and how to appropriately use it. There is no "Pope" or "Khalifa" in Islam to inject a global Jihad of any sort of the word. What you get is a sector of disgruntled Muslims who live and die by "ends justify all means" and feel it is obligatory to implement a Hegelian Islamic state with the blood of Non-Muslims; such is anathema to Islam. I don't see where this "Dar-al-Islam" comes into play, to be rather frank.

Instead of seeking a desultory and apathetic understanding of the situation, you should probe into what is really transpiring. Ask, what are the sociological, anthropological and ethnological problems that are at play? That would at least tap into something novel and articulate. What you espouse is tired and intellectually lazy, and is short of poppycock plagiarism from the likes of other, more notable, Islamaphobes--to say the very least.

--Ibn
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Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 01:39 pm
Quote:
Ask, what are the sociological, anthropological and ethnological problems that are at play?

Very Happy

Absolutely! Thank you Ibn. This is a fine idea.
What are the sociological; anthropological; and ethnological problems that are at play?

And EB,
I realize from your visceral response to my post that I am simply adding oil to the fire but really....
C'mon.....

Quote:
- The anti-semetic propaganda that led up to World War II. The Jews were portrayed as murderous and conniving. As I noted before, your rhetoric is nearly identical to the anti-semetic screes of the past. All you have done is change the targets.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember the suicide bombings; the blowing of up nightclubs; the attacks on grade schools; the beheadings; the daily armed attacks; the burning of houses of worship; the relentless murders; the attacks on police stations; the blowing up of buses; the constant and unceasing armed violence perpetrated by the Jews leading up to WWII. I must have missed those particular pieces of anti-semitic propaganda. Damn, those Nazis certainly weren't very efficient. They would have done better to let the world know about these Jewish perfidies. Then, we could have at least sympathized with their natural reaction...

Quote:
The portrayal of Native Americans as "Savages" and "Drunks". This propaganda allowed another of the long strings of ethnic cleansing that often are a result of the type of bigotry inherent in your post.


Hmmmm... Well, the Europeans did give them liquor, making them rather drunk due to their natural lack of defenses against this sort of thing.
And to the Europeans, the act of skinning their enemy alive was more savage than the rape, murder, theft and pillaging that the Europeans were fond of.
Oddly enough, the North American Native Americans have been, by and large, better treated than any other conquered ethnic group on this planet...
I suspect the murdered Potowan and Canarsee wouldn't agree, but then again, neither would the Picts and Normans and Celts and Mongols and Seljuks and Hittites and countless other peoples who no longer exist or some of the modern day survivors such as the Poles or the Alawites or the Shias who have been able to survive under tremendous repression.
I don't think portraying Native Americans badly is the same as cutting someone's head off. Could be wrong here, but it's just a thought.

I could address blacks and gypsies, but I think you can see where I'm going here.
I just don't remember these people (or their group) actually murdering people daily and being really, really happy about it...
I think I missed those historical pieces of interest.
No?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 01:58 pm
OK. You are wrong.

There are many groups in history that actually murdered people and were "really, really happy about it". In this group I would include the Nazi's, American slaveowners and the 9/11 terrorists.

But besides being murderous and barbaric, what do these groups have in common?

All of them used broad generalities, twisted facts and a very narrow world view to justify their hatred. They all relied on their ability to demonize a group based on ethnicity.

What you are dong is no different.

You are all very, very wrong.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 02:35 pm
Quote:
There are many groups in history that actually murdered people and were "really, really happy about it". In this group I would include the Nazi's, American slaveowners and the 9/11 terrorists.
But besides being murderous and barbaric, what do these groups have in common?
All of them used broad generalities, twisted facts and a very narrow world view to justify their hatred. They all relied on their ability to demonize a group based on ethnicity.


You know, you are absolutely right!! Very Happy
And I would suggest that all of the above groups be treated absolutely the same, except...

My problem is, I don't think that utter destruction visited upon their heads, as was done in the case of the Nazis and slaveowners, is a viable solution to today's murderous and barbaric groups (the other one you mentioned up there). I think that that kind of total and complete obliteration would be very, very bad.

So, I ask, what is the solution?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 02:45 pm
The solution is simple. People of good will need to oppose people with bigoted opinions whenever they come up. And that is what I am doing.

Whether this hateful rhetoric is coming from you or from the 9/11 terrorists I will oppose it as strongly as I can. I know where this type of bigotry leads and I hope the US can avoid going there.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 02:56 pm
Re: How To Solve The Problem Of Terrorist Islam?
Moishe3rd wrote:
the term Islamic Fascist Death Cultists narrows the focus to single out only those that both believe Islam should be the only religion in the world and those who are willing to murder and die for Allah in order to achieve this end.


This is not racist or bigoted. Maybe it is hateful, but Moishe is specifically talking about Muslims who murder. That is not bigoted. It is simply calling a murderer a murderer.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 02:56 pm
Sheesh, extremists are extremists, plain and simple, and they will continue to be a problem whatever faith they come from. If we are using the model posted that Islam should be reformed, I suggest looking in our own backyard as well. This is just silly.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 03:54 pm
Cav. Thanks for the dose of sanity. It is obvious that murdering fanatical extremists operate within Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three religious worlds must fight to cleanse themselves of these blights. We, the wealthiest, most powerful, and influential nation in the world should begin by putting down the religious and economic interests that support Jewish extremists and Islamic dicatators and Islamist extremists.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 04:10 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Cav. Thanks for the dose of sanity. It is obvious that murdering fanatical extremists operate within Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three religious worlds must fight to cleanse themselves of these blights. We, the wealthiest, most powerful, and influential nation in the world should begin by putting down the religious and economic interests that support Jewish extremists and Islamic dicatators and Islamist extremists.


Yes, absolutely. Cast no stones until you actually know that you are not the enemy yourself.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 04:27 pm
Re: How To Solve The Problem Of Terrorist Islam?
kickycan wrote:
Moishe3rd wrote:
the term Islamic Fascist Death Cultists narrows the focus to single out only those that both believe Islam should be the only religion in the world and those who are willing to murder and die for Allah in order to achieve this end.


This is not racist or bigoted. Maybe it is hateful, but Moishe is specifically talking about Muslims who murder. That is not bigoted. It is simply calling a murderer a murderer.


Would you have the same glib reaction to a similar post asking "How to solve the problem of Treacherous Jews?" or "How to solve the problem of Black Hoodlums?"

Attacking a racial group using a broad stereotype is a underhanded way to appeal to the lowest part of human nature. Right now Muslims (and Arabs in general) are the group that it is somehow OK to disparage. This group changes every so often and has more to say about us than them. Rrecently these stereotypes have included "lazy mexicans", "treasonous Japs" and "dirty Chinamen". "Terrorist Islam" is just the lastest version of this continuing cycle of bigotry.

The fact that there are blacks who have commited rape, or Mexicans who deal drugs is irrelevent. History shows that these stereotypes are always exaggerated. The need to be to meet their purpose.

There are people who are extremist murderers who happen to be Muslim. However, their rhetoric has more in common with the beliefs Moishe expresses than that of the average Muslim.

But I would react the same way to any such attack, regardless of the ethnicity or religion of the target.

Would you?
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 04:44 pm
Re: How To Solve The Problem Of Terrorist Islam?
ebrown_p wrote:
kickycan wrote:
Moishe3rd wrote:
the term Islamic Fascist Death Cultists narrows the focus to single out only those that both believe Islam should be the only religion in the world and those who are willing to murder and die for Allah in order to achieve this end.


This is not racist or bigoted. Maybe it is hateful, but Moishe is specifically talking about Muslims who murder. That is not bigoted. It is simply calling a murderer a murderer.


Would you have the same glib reaction to a similar post asking "How to solve the problem of Treacherous Jews?" or "How to solve the problem of Black Hoodlums?"

Attacking a racial group using a broad stereotype is a underhanded way to appeal to the lowest part of human nature. Right now Muslims (and Arabs in general) are the group that it is somehow OK to disparage. This group changes every so often and has more to say about us than them. Rrecently these stereotypes have included "lazy mexicans", "treasonous Japs" and "dirty Chinamen".

But I would react the same way to any such attack, regardless of the ethnicity or religion of the target.

Would you?


I see your point, but he made it a point to define his term specifically in order NOT to put all Muslims in that group. And he did mention that this was a minority of Muslims. If he said Fundamentalist Christian death squads, and defined it as only the Fundamentalist Christians who bomb abortion clinics, I wouldn't consider that hateful either, because the whacky skewed version of Christianity is part of the reason they commit their atrocities. Just like these people's skewed version of Islamic religion is a part of why they do what they do.
0 Replies
 
 

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