9
   

Is There ANY Chance the R's Will Use this Opportunity to Govern?

 
 
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 01:36 am
You know, spend a year doing good work so that when they go up Against Hillary they beat her. They rule without D interference then.

I dont think that these cats are smart enough, but the POTUS chair is theirs if they would just grow up and do good for a little while. The American people are desperate.
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 08:38 am
@hawkeye10,
It really depends on how the Amateurs in the White House handle this. It also depends on what the R's are trying to push.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 08:48 am
@hawkeye10,
We will know within the next month. The current continuing resolution expires on December 11th. Will the GOP deal with it now and pass appropriation bills or will they block any attempt until next January when they will control the Senate.

The other issue is whether they will allow the vote on Obama appointments before the new Congress. Failure on both of those issues will show us where they are heading.

Failure to deal with either of those doesn't bode well for the next 2 years. My guess is we will see 20 attempts to eliminate the ACA in the next year including bills that make it through the Senate using budget tricks.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 09:15 am
@hawkeye10,
You know the answer is no. Why would they change a winning strategy? This election pretty much validates the Republican tactics for the last six years. That may be an overstatement since every President with a majority in the Senate at year six has lost it over the last century or so, but I fully expect another government shutdown.

Obama is exactly where Clinton was at year six. Expect lots of time spent on bills that everyone knows will be filibustered or vetoed. Expect lots of recess appointments because the Senate will not vote on appointees. Expect lots of wind and very little governing.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:44 am
@engineer,
Quote:
Expect lots of wind and very little governing.


And the party of "no" will be the Democrats, changing from the party of "no compromise."
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:45 am
@engineer,
The Senate will pull the "Congress isn't recessed" crap.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 11:53 am
There is a piece on Slate this morning that the R's have no choice but to look for areas to work with d's on. The D's are going to be tempted to be obstructionist but that likely will not go over with the people if the R's stay moderate.

I am more convinced than I was two weeks ago that Obama should pull himself out of the partisanship and attempt a hail mary to save his legacy by focusing on good government.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawk you've absolutely made my day
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:04 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

You know the answer is no. Why would they change a winning strategy?

Because things have changed, which usually requires a new stratagy, and the people are even more pissed than we were last time. listen, i have said all along that the R's have more support than the media reports, and this election drives that home. The liberal bias of the media let the R's fly under the radar, the D's never knew this thumpin was coming. All the R's need to do to take POTUS as well is to attempt to govern for a year. That is some powerful motivation.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Because things have changed, which usually requires a new strategy

So what do you think has changed? The Democrats went center left demotivating their core constituents, the Republicans went far right energizing theirs and the Republicans won. If I'm a Republican looking at the results, I'm moving right and staying there. If I'm a Democrat, I'm moving hard left now that all the moderates are gone. It's not like those who lost were the super liberal wing of the Democratic party. In general, they were moderates from moderate states.
hawkeye10 wrote:
and the people are even more pissed than we were last time.

Maybe, but we won't do anything about it. What happened to the radical right Republicans that shut down the government last year? All reelected.
hawkeye10 wrote:
All the R's need to do to take POTUS as well is to attempt to govern for a year. That is some powerful motivation.

But if governing means moving towards the center, this election makes it completely clear that that is a losing strategy. That's what the Democrats did and they got crushed. Any data driven view of the data says the optimum strategy for both parties is to go to the farthest extreme possible.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:24 pm
According to the GOP headquarters press conference on CSPAN this morning about their plans for the lame duck session , there is a division in the party on how to proceed. Some want to get the required things done with some compromise while others want to dig their heels in deeper and do nothing if it isn't done their way.

They will be spending time fighting with each other over whether they should govern or obstruct in the lame duck session. Some don't want to do anything until the new session comes in so they, as the majority, get the credit.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:25 pm
@engineer,
I disagree engineer. I don't think you will see Democrats going hard left.

The Democratic strategy is a long term one that is already paying fruit with their constituents-- think about how far the country has changed on issues like gay marriage and abortion since Clinton.

The democrats will continue to play for the center, the far left will continue to come along begrudgingly. Bill Clinton already showed that governing from the center works for Democrats.

In 2016 this will be shown to be the correct strategy.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:35 pm
@Butrflynet,
Sometimes though, getting stuff done, is not good, it depends on what it is and if it is good for the country on whether the democrats should compromise.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

There is a piece on Slate this morning that the R's have no choice but to look for areas to work with d's on.

That is a pipe dream. They said the same when Obama was re-elected. Wasn't it just two years ago that the story was that the people voted on Obama's policies and supported them and the Republicans would now have to work with the White House to govern?
hawkeye10 wrote:
The D's are going to be tempted to be obstructionist but that likely will not go over with the people if the R's stay moderate.

Two questions there. What do you mean when you say "if the R's stay moderate?" Where do you see the Republicans as moderate or where do you think they will moderate their positions? Taxes, immigration, civil rights, gun rights/control, health care, welfare? I can't see them moving to the center on any of those issues. Which people will it not likely go over well with? Will the Democrats ever make any inroads with the Republican base? I doubt it. If the Democrats fail to resist (and resist hard) the Republican agenda, will their base show up in two years? I doubt it. The storyline now is compromise means weakness and no one wants to be weak.
hawkeye10 wrote:
I am more convinced than I was two weeks ago that Obama should pull himself out of the partisanship and attempt a hail mary to save his legacy by focusing on good government.

It is mantra among those who do not like Obama that he's a far left liberal. You can't look directly at any of his policies and see anything other than a moderate, maybe a slightly right leaning one. In many places like immigration and taxes, he'd be right of Reagan. Obama is now where Clinton was in '98. His only job is to prevent a radical congress from passing any laws that further damage the country and use his bully pulpit to hammer the Republicans. Also like Clinton, he is utterly despised by his counterparts McConnell and Boener and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. (To be honest, I'm not sure Trent Lott was as personally antagonistic to Clinton as McConnell is to Obama.)

I can't see where your optimism is based on. I think the coming two years will make the last four years look like a picnic.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:45 pm
@engineer,
I think it is very clear that the the R's stayed disciplined and that they were on the whole more moderate than we have seen them lately. And it worked, which will encourage more if it.

What has changed? Really? The R's own congress now, to include its functions of funding and oversight of the government agencies.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The Democratic strategy is a long term one that is already paying fruit with their constituents-- think about how far the country has changed on issues like gay marriage and abortion since Clinton.

Think of how far we have regressed in other areas like fair taxation, gun control, immigration policy, privacy rights, social safety net programs, education policy, Wall Street reforms, etc. I think the left in general has been getting their hats handed to them for the last twenty years. Gay rights has been a huge plus (but I can't see how the Democrats can take any credit for it). Personally I think the right is winning on abortion so I'm not sure why you consider that a plus. Can you name a place where abortion is more readily available than twenty years ago? I can name a numerous states where abortion rights have been limited.
maxdancona wrote:
The democrats will continue to play for the center, the far left will continue to come along begrudgingly. Bill Clinton already showed that governing from the center works for Democrats.

Bill Clinton was elected with a majority in both houses, supervised an almost unprecedented period of peace and prosperity and left office with both branches of Congress in Republican hands and unable to get his VP into office. Exactly how is that a success?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 12:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I think it is very clear that the the R's stayed disciplined and that they were on the whole more moderate than we have seen them lately. And it worked, which will encourage more if it.

Could you be more specific here? In what areas were the Republicans more moderate? Healthcare, immigration reform, welfare, gun control, abortion rights? Not sticking your foot in your mouth is not the same as being moderate. I think the Republicans were disciplined in that they did not talk about their positions at all and didn't throw any distractions into the races that could derail them. I did not see anyone do anything significant in terms of moving to the center. By significant I mean deeds, not rhetoric.

Quote:
The R's own congress now, to include its functions of funding and oversight of the government agencies.

They've held the House for four years already, so they already owned a lot of that. That is how we got the government shutdown. There was always some give and take in the Senate with the House being the issue. That hasn't changed. In fact, the Tea Party wing has grown meaning Boehner is going to have to move right.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 01:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

There is a piece on Slate this morning that the R's have no choice but to look for areas to work with d's on.

A counter article: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/obama-mcconnell-boehner-tea-party
Quote:
As the postelection celebration (for the GOP) and cleanup (for the White House and the Democrats) continues, some political observers of a D bent are trying to push a silver-lining idea: Now that the Republicans fully control Congress, they will have to act more responsibly and demonstrate that they can govern and not just say no to everything.

Isn't it pretty to think so.

There is little evidence to support this lovely notion. The fundamental political dynamic of the Republican Party has not shifted; it's advance has been fueled by its Obama-hating tea party wing. Joni Ernst of Iowa and Cory Gardner of Colorado will be two new GOP stars in the Senate, and they both hail from the far-right region of their party. Their model senator will likely be Ted Cruz of Texas, who on election night refused to endorse the newly reelected Mitch McConnell of Kentucky as Senate majority leader, signaling his intention to lead what might be called the Monkey Wrench Caucus. And in the House, the tea party club—which blocked House Speaker John Boehner's deal-making with the White House and pushed for government shutdowns and a debt ceiling crisis—will likely have a few more members when the new Congress convenes in January. The lesson the House tea partiers will probably draw: Obstruction pays off, big-time.

Sure, Republican lawmakers will be eager to pass bills, but their efforts won't be aimed at forging compromises with the president. Their legislation will likely target Obamacare and slash spending for social programs. They can be expected to fiercely block presidential appointments, especially judges. They might try to enact restrictions on abortion, and they will certainly seek to gut environmental regulations and climate change policies. Oh yes, and they will push tax cuts for the well-to-do. Such an agenda will be predicated on more confrontation and obstruction.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 02:00 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
There is little evidence to support this lovely notion. The fundamental political dynamic of the Republican Party has not shifted; it's advance has been fueled by its Obama-hating tea party wing


this logic is stillborn, the hallmark of a moderate is being in line with the majority. Being anti Obama is moderate credibility.

Quote:
Sure, Republican lawmakers will be eager to pass bills, but their efforts won't be aimed at forging compromises with the president.
Probably should not even try, Obama is irrelevant, a problem largely caused by his incompetence. The R's should however attempt to work with Congressional D's, a huge number of whom at this point have no use for Obama either.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2014 02:14 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Could you be more specific here? In what areas were the Republicans more moderate? Healthcare, immigration reform, welfare, gun control, abortion rights

Healthcare: R's are with the majority

immigration reform: The nation is split, the R's are with half of us

gun control: has become like abortion, the nation is split and tired of fighting about it. Not a relevant issue

abortion rights: not even the feminists are fighting over this anymore, the issue is dead now that we have both free to the user birth control and morning after pills to prevent pregnancy. Medical abortions are over, and we as a nation are fine with that outcome. Again we see the R's solidly in the majority line..aka moderate. So long as the R's dont go after BC or the morning after pills the nation that is tired of fighting about abortion will conclude that their is no reason to fight about it. Women who dont want a baby dont need to have a baby even if abortions dont exist. If they dont look after themselves well enough to prevent pregnancy then too ******* bad, they had their chance.

Quote:
Tea Party wing has grown meaning Boehner is going to have to move right.
You are kidding right? Boehner has spent the last several years going toe to toe with the Tea Party, he is not going to stop now after this big win on the back of moderation . And he has a great argument to use on them "hold up for now, let us run the tables on the D's next time, and then we will really set to work pruning back this government". Whether they do take an axe to government two years from now IDK, but the point is that this is too good of a promise for the radicals to pass up.
 

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