1 in 5 women get raped?

@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

There are plenty of us who support both women's rights and men's rights.

That may well be true. But it doesn't seem to be so on a2k.

There are, and you are always welcome to join us Andrei.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

wmwcjr wasn't talking about "rights", so why did you respond to his post by shifting the topic off what he was referring to?

wmwcjr said:

Quote:

Do the Gang of Three and other MRAs ever express any outrage over male-on-male assaults such as this one? No, they don't. Their sole obsession is women. They only concern themselves with the victimization (real or imagined) of males by females. They don't concern themselves with the victimization of males by other males. Their view of "men's rights" is actually quite limited. In their minds the victimization of males by other males doesn't count.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Because I don't like ad-hominems.

Let's focus on the positives. Some of us are in favor of both men's rights and women's rights even though we take flack from both sides.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I still don't see where the issue of gender rights has anything, at all, to do with what wmwcjr was pointing out.

It goes without saying that everyone has the right to be protected from sexual violence and sexual assault--supporting that basic idea is not exactly taking any sort of moral high road.

But it is also very obvious, as wmwcjr correctly pointed out, that the MRA's posting here are mainly focused on men being victimized by women, usually specifically focused on how vague, unnamed, but allegedly omnipotent, "feminists" victimize men in some sort of conspiracy. There is no concern for men being victimized by other men, that quite real issue is completely ignored by these so-called MRA's. It's as if these men don't exist.

I think wmwcjr has raised a valid point, and one that should not be glibly dismissed as "ad hominem" because it might make you uncomfortable to address.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

But it is also very obvious, as wmwcjr correctly pointed out, that the feminists posting here are mainly focused on women being victimized by men, usually specifically focused on how vague, unnamed, but allegedly omnipotent, "MRAs" victimize women in some sort of conspiracy.

Do you see the irony here?

My point is that you can support both women's rights and men's rights.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

There are plenty of us who support both women's rights and men's rights.

That may well be true. But it doesn't seem to be so on a2k.

And Max ain't one of them. He likes to pretend he does, he might even believe he is, but he's only fooling himself.

1 Reply

Someone who labels himself or herself a feminist, but admits that the men's rights groups have some valid points has my respect. Someone who labels himself or herself a "Men's rights" advocate, but admits that feminists have some valid points also has my respect.

I don't respect when anyone slaps labels on their "opposition" and then refuse to listen to, or even consider, anything they have to say.

The problem with ideology is that it narrows your thinking. There is an 'us' vs. 'them' mentality that makes it impossible to consider any view but your own.

I agree with men's rights groups on some issues. I agree with feminists on other issues. I don't like either of these labels.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Always with the personal attacks, Izzy.

I support woman's rights wholeheartedly. I agree with N.O.W 95% of the time.

- I agree with you about equal pay for equal work.
- I am pro-choice.
- I believe that birth-control should be part of health care.
- I agree that rape is all too common. I fully support the work done by effective anti-rape groups such as RAINN.

Our disagreement has nothing to do with women's rights. The problem is that in addition to woman's rights, I also support men's rights.

You can support both women's rights and men's rights.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

If you're pretending to quote me, then don't dishonestly submit your words as though they were mine. You're not being ironic, you're being dishonest.

As far as I can tell, we have no committed feminists posting here, the last one I can recall, a young woman named "dosed", was at A2K a few years ago, and she fit none of the stereotypes the MRA's continually try to promote. And, as far as I can tell, neither the males nor females currently posting here, including you, seem at all well informed or accurate about the issues and positions of current third-wave feminists. That makes "feminists" an excellent scapegoat target because there are none posting here to dispute what you say or attribute to them. I've tried to correct your inaccuracies, not because I'm particularly siding with feminists, I find them generally irrelevant, but because I find it extremely dishonest for you to deliberately mischaracterize them for the purpose of promoting your own agenda--which is all about woman victimizing men.

I have heard no female posters blaming "men", let alone all "men", on the issue of sexual assault/rape--not even the A2K members who have posted about their own rapes. Sorry to disappoint you, Max, we just don't have a man-hating group of women at A2K. Nor are the women posting here unconcerned about the welfare of men. They're not promoting an adversarial gender war, as you seem to be doing.

The MRA's posting here aren't vague or unnamed, which is why wmwcjr named two of them, and the fact you immediately jumped in to respond to his post, strongly suggests you consider yourself part of that group. And while you whine when your posts get tagged "misogynist", you might consider the fact that you are constantly blaming women for victimizing men the reason that that occurs.

wmwcjr raised a valid point about the MRA's posting here completely ignoring the issue of men being victimized by other men--and you're still trying to dodge it.

And, let me remind you, when we discuss sexual assaults/rapes, we are discussing crimes.

2 Replies

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

You're not being ironic, you're being dishonest.

Exactly, now watch him accuse you of using ad hominems. He can be as sneaky and duplicitous as he wants, but you're not allowed to point it out. That's his idea of civilised debate.

1 Reply

@firefly,

I am not dodging anything Firefly.

Violence is wrong in any of the four permutations (man-man, man-woman, woman-man, woman-woman) or any other gender identification.

The scientific data show that females are just as likely as men to use violence in a realationship, and violence happens in same-sex relationships of either gender. When men are perpetrators there is a greater likelihood of injury. When women are perpetrators it is much less likely to be reported. All of it is bad.

I oppose all of them equally. Do you?

You can support both men's rights and women's rights.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Izzy,

I am still waiting to see a post from you that doesn't contain a personal attack.

It is amusing ....

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I want the laws regarding crimes of violence and sexual assault/rape upheld and enforced.

Men commit more crimes of all sorts--arson, burglary, serial murders, mass shootings etc.--than women do. That's not a put-down of men, it's simply a fact.

At least one third of all female homicide victims in the U.S. are killed by male intimate partners -- husbands and ex-husbands, boyfriends and estranged lovers--vs. 2.5% of men killed by intimate partners.

I do not see criminal matters as related to "men's rights and women's rights" --crimes pertain to acts that violate laws.

And, if you're such an egalitarian, stop complaining, almost exclusively, about men being victimized by women.

2 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Men commit more crimes of all sorts--arson, burglary, serial murders, mass shootings etc.--than women do. That's not a put-down of men, it's simply a fact.

Flat out false! Men are CONVICTED of more crimes than women are. This is called the sentencing gap.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Do you see what firefly is doing Max? When I brought up made to penetrate, she accused me of being "off topic". But then she turns right around and goes on a rant about MRAs. Because feminists like her are hypocrites. It's perfectly Ok for them to do things that they criticize others for doing. ...Like going "off topic".

And I'm not an MRA by the way wmwcjr. Not that I think there's anything wrong with MRA's, but I'm a MGTOW. There's a big difference. And I (just like MRAs do) support women's rights. In a prior post I even listed THREE feminists who I admire and support. Look at someone like firefly; has she ever once pointed out something, or someone, or some point about the MRM that she acknowledges is good? Hmmm? I'm not advocating taking any rights away from women. I just want equal rights for men too, because we don't have that yet. That's why for instance women can vote without having to agree to die in war.

And under the current laws men are sentenced more harshly for the exact same crimes as women. This is what's known as the sentencing gap. Firefly has stated that she fully supports men receiving harsher sentences for the same exact crimes that women commit, for the sole reason that they were born with a penis.

I take umbrage with that, you bet a I do. Because that is not equality. True equality is a society where men and women both have equal rights and equal responsibilities. That means no special passes are given.

Quote:

You can support both women's rights and men's rights.

You are absolutely correct Max. And this is probably the single biggest difference between the MRM and feminism.

The MRM wants equal rights for BOTH genders. Feminism wants special privileges for women only. And the MRM expects that women take equal responsibility as men do, whereas feminism infantilizes women. And that's why feminists really are as misogynistic as they come. Feminists are telling women that they're not as capable as men are, so they need these special privileges. MRAs are telling women that they are every bit as capable and strong as men are, and don't need special passes.

1 Reply

@wmwcjr,

Quote:

As for nononono labeling his critics as Marxists...

Whenever I make a valid point, it gets voted down, or ad hominem attacked, or straw man attacked, or tagged with "Let's legalize rape", or "Misogyny", or "Whinger" or some such nonsense horseshit that has nothing to do with what I said.

People want me to shut up because they know I'm making valid points that contradict their ideology. And so yes, cultural marxism is alive and well here on A2K.

0 Replies

@nononono,

Quote:

Flat out false! Men are CONVICTED of more crimes than women are. This is called the sentencing gap.

Duh...no, a difference in conviction rates isn't a sentencing gap. You can't be sentenced if you're not convicted, birdbrain.

And the reason men are convicted more often than women is because they are also arrested overwhelmingly more than women, particularly for violent crimes.

Quote:

◾Over 74 percent (74.1) of the persons arrested in the nation during 2011 were males. They accounted for 80.4 percent of persons arrested for violent crime and 62.9 percent of persons arrested for property crime.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/persons-arrested/persons-arrested

So, given your peculiar logic, all laws, particularly pertaining to violent crimes, must be biased against men.

1 Reply

@nononono,

Quote:

Firefly has stated that she fully supports men receiving harsher sentences for the same exact crimes that women commit, for the sole reason that they were born with a penis.

http://www.a-1video.com/Jerry%20laughs.gif

Do you ever connect to reality? Do you expect anyone to believe that crap?

You're a pathetic little attention whore who'll say anything to try to get it. Laughing

That makes ignoring you all the more satisfying. Laughing

2 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

And the reason men are convicted more often than women is because they are also arrested overwhelmingly more than women, particularly for violent crimes.

Men are arrested more than women. They're also more likely to be convicted. When they're convicted, they're more likely to receive harsher sentences. They're also less likely to be paroled than women, etc, etc...

You are showing your ignorance of men's issues firefly. You've obviously never set foot on any true MRA webpage. How can you criticize something when you're not knowledgeable about it?

The term "Sentencing Gap" is an umbrella term that refers to the bias as a whole that men receive in the judicial system.

Jesus christ, at least when I attack feminist points I read up on them first.

0 Replies

@firefly,

nononono said:

Quote:

Firefly has stated that she fully supports men receiving harsher sentences for the same exact crimes that women commit, for the sole reason that they were born with a penis.

firefly said:

Quote:

Do you ever connect to reality? Do you expect anyone to believe that crap?

You're a pathetic little attention whore who'll say anything to try to get it. That makes ignoring you all the more satisfying.

Then quit being a coward and answer my question firefly:

nononono said:

Quote:

How is unwanted sex somehow more vile simply because it's a man doing it to a woman?

Scenario A) A man has coitus (penis in vagina sex) with an unconscious woman.

Scenario B) A woman has coitus (penis in vagina sex) with an unconscious man.

How are these two acts ANY different in regards to being a violation of a person's body? How is it that only one of these acts should be viewed as rape? Now I'm not disputing what the current legal definition of "rape" is, so quit telling me that I don't understand it. I'm arguing that the current definition is bias against men.

Why should it be that unwanted coitus should be considered a more serious criminal act under the law simply if a man was the one who initiated it? How is that NOT bias against men? Can you answer me that using logic and not diversion tactics like telling me that I don't understand the current laws? Hmmm firefly? can you do it? I'm waiting...

0 Replies

1 in 5 women get raped?

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