25
   

1 in 5 women get raped?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 11:42 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Why instead of 20 percents do we not pull the number 100 percents out of thin air and you can despise anyone who question the 100 percent figure also?


If it was just that you wouldn't be despised by anyone.
0 Replies
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 12:07 pm
@revelette2,
Ouch.

This comment was up-voted,

yet it's full of accusations and forced contention through emotional pithe.

Tells us a lot about the intellectual capacity of these people: none.

How about that emotional capacity: competing with ignorance as we speak.

Apparently, telling someone that the numbers to sexual assault counts are not scientific, but politically assumed, is now equivalent to defending sexual assaults.

It's like when Christians call me a sinner because I "tell them they are full of ****". I broke what? 1 commandment? They broke all 10.

Man, I love people. They make life so interesting with their idiocy.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 12:15 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Quote:
Apparently, telling someone that the numbers to sexual assault counts are not scientific, but politically assumed, is now equivalent to defending sexual assaults.


Of course, just as saying anything to the effect that maybe the accused is not guilty or that their punishment is too harsh is now going to get you called a "rape apologist". I routinely get called this because I point out that sexual assault law is fucked up and I point out that those who are accused of sexual assault dont get justice in our system much of the time.

The feminists have been able to frame the debate, and anyone who does not support those who take the victim label to the hilt 100% of the time are wrong according to them.

BTW: In my early years here me talking about this stuff generated calls for my banning from A2K, which of course would have been an attack on reason and free speech. Some people where so hot that I was not banned that they left.
One Eyed Mind
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 12:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Follow my lead.

He who agrees 100% is lying; he who disagrees 100% is denying.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 12:18 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Your welcome, thought it appropriate for the arguments I was responding to. I confess, this is one subject where I really don't care what others think. I despise rapist with a vengeance and anyone who defends or tries to mitigate it.




the feminists love your type, the unthinking, the ones who upon hearing that someone has been called a rapist can be counted on to jump to your feet screaming " HIT THE SONOFABITCH HARDER!"
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 01:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I 'm looking for a revolver that will take .45 ACP

S&W makes them, or at least used to (it's been awhile since I've perused their lineup).

I also believe moon clips exist for the S&W .45 ACP revolver, which makes the reloading process faster.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:07 pm
@BillRM,
Perhaps I shouldn't be on this thread. I am not really into the numbers game going on one way or another.

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:11 pm
I think the 1 and 5 figure came from the WH. Aside from that, the following is a very interesting article which discusses the many problems victims of college rapes face when it comes to prosecuting. The more I read, the more in favor I am in having some form of protection.

In campus rape cases, victim often blamed for failure to prosecute

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:35 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I think the 1 and 5 figure came from the WH. Aside from that, the following is a very interesting article which discusses the many problems victims of college rapes face when it comes to prosecuting. The more I read, the more in favor I am in having some form of protection.

In campus rape cases, victim often blamed for failure to prosecute




Ya, the alleged victim often being an admitted criminal (under aged drunk) and clearly irresponsible is going to get in the way of her credibility. When her allegation is the only evidence against a guy that is going to be a problem. As it should be under the Constitution.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:02 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
I think the 1 and 5 figure came from the WH.

I believe that WH figure refers to instances of sexual assault, regarding college students, but other surveys of the general population have come up with similar numbers.

Like you, I'm not interested in playing the numbers game, I'm more interested in seeing all the sexual assault numbers diminished, these crimes prevented, and the perpetrators held accountable.

Most of the rapes on campuses are committed by a very small group of serial predators who commit an average of 6 rapes each. Simply by identifying those in that group, and getting them off campuses, all campuses, would significantly decrease the prevalence of sexual assaults.

But the solution is not to kick them off one campus so they simply move on to another where they can continue the same pattern. One story currently in the news--the death of college student Hannah Graham-- illustrates the tragic consequences of doing that. The suspect in her death, Jesse Matthew, was first accused of sexual assault at the first college he attended, he simply withdrew and enrolled at a second college, where he was again accused of sexual assault and withdrew. He is now linked to the 2005 attempted murder and sexual assault of another woman, and the 2009 murder of Morgan Harrington, a 20-year-old student at Virginia Tech, in addition to the recent abduction with intent to defile and death of Hannah Graham, a University of Virginia sophomore .
Quote:
Handling of old allegations against Matthew scrutinized
Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2014
The Washington Post

WASHINGTON — Two Virginia universities are pressing each other to unearth the information they exchanged after an on-campus rape allegation against Jesse “LJ” Matthew Jr. more than a decade ago, when the football player was transferring from Liberty University to Christopher Newport University shortly after a woman accused him of sexual assault.

Matthew, 32, has been charged with abduction in connection with last month’s disappearance of University of Virginia second-year student Hannah Graham, an alleged kidnapping that police say was for the purposes of sexually assaulting the 18-year-old from Fairfax County. The search continues for Graham, who went missing after witnesses saw her with Matthew in the early hours of Sept. 13 on the Downtown Mall.

The allegations against Matthew from the early 2000s are receiving renewed law enforcement scrutiny amid a widening investigation spurred by the Graham case. Liberty and CNU officials said they are cooperating in that investigation, which has expanded beyond Graham to encompass two more unsolved attacks on women, including a violent sexual assault in Fairfax City in 2005 and the case of a young woman who went missing from Charlottesville in 2009 and later was found dead. Two people familiar with the Graham investigation said that the link is Matthew’s DNA.

The previous accusations against Matthew — one at Liberty and another less than a year later at CNU — were investigated by police at the time, but neither resulted in a criminal charge. Internal university actions are shielded from public view by privacy protections for student records.

The most unrestricted opportunity for sizing up a security threat comes during student transfers, when schools are free to share educational records and ask — and answer — a much wider range of questions about a student that otherwise would be prohibited.

Yet even now, in the wake of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings and amid heightened concerns about sexual assaults, many schools do not flag disciplinary sanctions on transcripts even if they are prepared to answer another school’s potential questions, according to several experts on student records and federal privacy rules.

“Given what we know about the predatory nature of perpetrators of campus sexual assaults, it would be ideal if more colleges and universities had a more robust policy and process for tracking disciplinary actions when students transfer,” said S. Daniel Carter, director of the 32 National Campus Safety Initiative, which was created after the Virginia Tech rampage. “As a practical matter, there is not an exhaustive review and not typically a request to send everything over.”

Matthew left Liberty, in Lynchburg, on the day that he was accused of rape in October 2002, and he enrolled at CNU, in Newport News, the following January. A few weeks into the next football season — in September 2003 — Matthew was accused of sexually assaulting a CNU student on campus. A defensive lineman, Matthew formally left the football team and, after that, the university in October 2003.

CNU said Matthew’s accuser sought an internal university disciplinary review, but school officials would not disclose the outcome of that process, citing privacy rules. Liberty would not say whether the university conducted an internal investigation that included the alleged victim in its case, citing privacy protections for student records. Such internal disciplinary outcomes are almost always kept secret.

Matthew’s attorney, James Camblos III, declined to comment on the allegations at Liberty and CNU. “I am not aware of the particular details of either event. Therefore, I cannot comment on them,” he said.

Limited details about the allegations against Matthew were released under federal and state laws that permit disclosure of crime reports.

At the time he was transferring, even more information could have been shared between Liberty and CNU, but that window to fully look into his history closed once the transfer was complete.

“The law does not prevent a school from disclosing an allegation of assault or criminal activity when a student is transferring. There is no legal barrier,” said Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., a former prosecutor who has proposed legislation that would expand disclosures and investigations into campus threats and crimes.

But just as there is no ban, there is no requirement to share disciplinary information, Blumenthal said.

“That’s one of the major failings we are trying to correct,” he said. “A lot of the current criticism is well justified” about schools being lax in responding to on-campus problems. “It’s not just second-guessing and applying hindsight.”

Deciding how much information to share can be thorny for a school, particularly when a claim was unsubstantiated or involved a minor infraction that could haunt students for their academic careers, several experts on student privacy said.

Descriptions by Liberty and CNU of the processes in place during the period when Matthew was transferring show how disciplinary information and an assault allegation could fail to draw attention and then virtually disappear.

The rape allegation at Liberty and any disciplinary action against Matthew would not have appeared on a transcript sent to CNU, according to the standard procedures Liberty described.

Liberty’s official transcripts show “on their face” that “they are the transcript of academic record,” and that document “does not show if the student is not in good standing from a student disciplinary or conduct perspective,” Liberty officials said in emails to The Washington Post.

To get a student’s disciplinary history during a transfer, a school would have to request it specifically, ask what was alleged and request the results of any investigations, which Liberty’s Student Conduct Office would provide, according to Liberty officials.

If Liberty administrators had involuntarily withdrawn a student during 2002, the student’s record would show “official withdrawal” — a term that covers expulsions and suspensions for discipline but also would be used for a student who chose to withdraw for a medical reason or bereavement.

“Other than death or a student in a coma, though, Administrative Withdrawal is generally used for disciplinary separations,” Liberty officials wrote. They said that they cannot say under what terms Matthew left the school.

When CNU dismisses students for academic or disciplinary reasons, “that is always placed prominently on the student’s transcript,” CNU President Paul Trible Jr. said. “Tragically, we have recently learned that is not done by many schools.”

But there was a second avenue for delving into Matthew’s history on campus.

As a transferring football player, Matthew faced a review of his eligibility to play under NCAA rules. The two universities appear at odds over what was presented about Matthew in “tracer forms” for athletes.

Trible said that before CNU accepts a transferring athlete, it requires signed statements from the athlete and from the athletics department he is leaving that say the player is in good standing with regard to academics and disciplinary matters.

“They would not be in uniform here otherwise,” said Trible, who has led CNU for 18 years. “We follow that in every instance, and that has been the process in place since I’ve been here.”

Liberty said it does not keep athletic transfer forms for longer than a decade and could not say what questions or follow-ups CNU might have asked in Matthew’s situation.

But after hearing CNU’s account to The Washington Post, Liberty officials asked CNU for a copy of the tracer forms sent during the 2002-2003 period and said they were told that CNU no longer had the records. A CNU spokeswoman said the school could not provide additional documents or further information on that point.

Those behind-the-scene exchanges point to the heightened and renewed interest in Matthew’s past.

With Matthew’s arrest in Graham’s case, Virginia State Police said they have a “forensic link” between Matthew and the disappearance of 20-year-old Morgan Harrington, who was found dead outside Charlottesville after she vanished in October 2009.

Should Graham’s disappearance be directly related to Harrington’s, it would suggest the work of a serial offender that also includes a violent sexual assault in Fairfax City in 2005. The FBI has said that Virginia authorities submitted forensic evidence in the Fairfax City case to the FBI’s national DNA database, and that a search matched DNA from the Harrington investigation.

Matthew’s alleged victim at Liberty declined to press charges, and no independent witnesses could be found to corroborate her account, so charges were not filed, said Lynchburg Commonwealth’s Attorney Michael Doucette.

Liberty officials said they cooperated with the Lynchburg police investigation. A heavily redacted police report released to The Washington Post in response to a public information request shows the alleged rape occurred the evening of Oct. 16, 2002, in “field/woods” and was reported in the early hours of Oct. 17. Liberty has said that incident occurred behind the Vines Center, a basketball arena and special-events facility.

Trible, the CNU president, said the school’s police force investigated the allegation that Matthew committed a sexual assault on its campus. The alleged victim did not want to pursue a criminal case but did take part in a disciplinary investigation on campus, Trible said. Trible and other CNU officials declined to share the outcome.

Howard Gwynn, commonwealth’s attorney for Newport News, said it is not possible for him to know whether an allegation from 2003 was brought to his office for review.

“As tempting as it is to throw caution to the wind and share everything Liberty University knows related to Jesse Matthew, we must respect federal law and try to not prejudice any ongoing criminal investigation,” Liberty said in an email. “We understand this may not be satisfactory to a public hungry for more details on this case, but we are satisfied that everything that needs to come out concerning Jesse Matthew and Liberty University will come out in due course and through legally permitted channels.”
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/crime/handling-of-old-allegations-against-matthew-scrutinized/article_118ecaf4-51a0-11e4-803f-001a4bcf6878.html


Quote:
How Colleges Let Sexual Predators Slip Away To Other Schools
by Tyler Kingkade
10/23/14

If a college student is disciplined by a school for sexual assault, the rapist can skip the punishment by transferring to a new university without anyone ever knowing.

The offense won’t necessarily show up on a transcript. And administrators can simply note in a student’s file that he or she faced disciplinary action without recording actual details. What's more, schools that accept transfer students aren't required to circle back to a previous school to check records. Even if they do, full disclosure isn’t required, and the schools never have to inform the police.

Experts and sex attack survivors say this policy gap allows serial predators to commit new offenses somewhere else, and they want the loophole snapped shut.

"It makes it worse," said Katherine Rizzo, a student at Northeastern University in Boston whose rapist was found responsible for "sexual assault with penetration" during an April 4, 2011, disciplinary hearing and then transferred to the University of Maryland before an appeal hearing. His transcript shows only "pending disciplinary action."

"The more people get away with it, the more power people think they have and the worse their attacks will get,” Rizzo said. “Schools are not trying to solve the problem. Schools are trying to get the problem off campus."

Northeastern officials noted colleges cannot prohibit students from withdrawing and transferring to another school "whether or not they are involved in a pending disciplinary action."

There are lots of examples of this attack-and-escape pattern. Take a case making big headlines right now: Jesse Matthew Jr.

Matthew is accused of abducting and planning to sexually assault Hannah Graham, a University of Virginia sophomore who has been missing for more than a month. (Human remains found by searchers over the weekend haven't yet been identified.) This isn’t the first time Matthew has been suspected of sexual assault -- it’s the fourth, authorities said. Yet this is the first time he’s been held behind bars.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2197340/thumbs/o-CURTIS-DIXON-570.jpg?2&random=1414275226280

'THAT DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE SHOULDN'T KNOW'

By the time Antonio Charles was arrested, and then dismissed from Miami University in December 2011 for sexual assault, he had already collected a slew of allegations for sexual misconduct on the Oxford, Ohio, campus.

In 2009, Charles was kicked out of his fraternity when the brothers of the house reported to the cops he was secretly videotaping women during sexual encounters without consent, according Oxford police records obtained by The Huffington Post. Oxford police investigated, seized his computer and found the videos, but decided they could not determine the victims' identities and "cleared" the case. The university, despite having a record of at least one woman who says she was one of those sex tape victims, did not punish Charles at the time.

Two years later, a woman went to police to report Charles for sexually assaulting her while she was intoxicated on Oct. 29, 2011. Charles was arrested on Nov. 3, and a little over a month later was expelled after a university disciplinary hearing, where a second student also accused him of sexual assault.

Family members of the woman said her assault would've been prevented if Miami had taken action when it had reports of Charles engaging in voyeurism. They sued the university in October 2013.

Miami President David C. Hodge promised in a letter to the victim's father that any school officials inquiring about Charles in the future would be told he violated "Miami's Code of Student Conduct, Section 103A, Sexual Misconduct or Assault and was permanently dismissed from the University."

Charles went on to enroll at West Texas A&M University in the fall of 2012. Mike Knox, the school's vice president for student affairs, confirmed to HuffPost that Charles remains enrolled there today, and that Charles submitted an official transcript from Miami when he started. Knox wouldn't say what was on those papers, citing federal privacy laws.

"WTAMU recently modified its transfer application to include a question seeking information about any prior disciplinary history an applicant may have from any school, college or university," Knox said. "All students, including incoming freshman, are asked to submit transcripts from prior institutions of higher education."

Charles declined to comment.

The Miami University victim's father, who asked to remain anonymous to protect his daughter's identity, said he's disturbed that an accused rapist could leave and start over, with no one knowing about his past.

"Could he have changed his ways? I don't know, he very well could have," the father said. "But that doesn't mean people shouldn't know about him."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/college-rape-transfer_n_6030770.html

revelette2
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
So if a woman has too much to drink under aged or not, she deserves to get raped and then not believed?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:12 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But the solution is not to kick them off one campus so they simply move on to another where they can continue the same pattern

we know how this will work, guys kicked out on sexual abuse allegations will be deprived of a degree other than online, which is not as good, one allegation will hobble them for life. Which is all the more reason to insist that all sexual abuse allegations get handled by the existing state apparatus, with all constitutional rights to due process, standards of proof, and presumption of innocence adhered too. The chase after alleged boogie men is not a reason to vacate the Constitution.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye there are already lawsuits by men who have been given the short end of a college hearings that contain nothing of due process.

The poor universities are force to have these extra legal setups by the Federal government/feminists and at the same time they are opening themselves to lawsuits by the men they had harm by them.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:21 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hawkeye there are already lawsuits by men who have been given the short end of a college hearings that contain nothing of due process.

The poor universities are force to have these extra legal setups by the Federal government/feminists and at the same time they are opening themselves to lawsuits by the men they had harm by them.


It is not clear to me that the courts are going the support this particular effort by the Obama Administration to suppress Constitutional rights. But if you or anyone else ever had any doubts about how far the government/feminist team would go to **** over men they should be vanquished by now.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we know how this will work, guys kicked out on sexual abuse allegations will be deprived of a degree other than online, which is not as good, one allegation will hobble them for life.

You think it's better to let someone like Jesse Matthew go on to commit sexual assaults on another campus, and a trail of other crimes that now link him to a an attempted murder and sexual assault, and the deaths of two college students? Colleges should be able to share information on transfer students when accusations of sexual misconduct have been made.

I'm more concerned about letting a serial predator like that roam free than I am about depriving him of his ability to get an on campus degree.

I'm perfectly willing to see all serious sexual abuse allegations handled by law enforcement. That would allow for the names of those accused to be made public, and something like that might have stopped Jesse Matthew a long time ago. He was initially shielded by the universities protection of his privacy.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:41 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

So if a woman has too much to drink under aged or not, she deserves to get raped and then not believed?

The memory of an underaged drunk most certainly should not be depended upon. The state has a solution to this " problem" though, in the future any sex acts that take place while the female is under the influence of something that is objected to after the fact by the female will be a criminal act, with the man being the criminal natch (cause the feminists write the sex laws) .

The fantastically hilarious thing here is that the feminist legal theory has long depended upon the idea that a man knows or should know the risk of going into congress with a woman under consent conditions other than the very best. If he should get hung with the woman complaining to the state after a sex session of lower level consent then it is tough luck charlie, you rolled the dice and lost. However the same theory is never put out there for women who get themselves drunk and then get into sexual situations that they either cant handle or that they decide that they dont like once they sober up. We should be saying that of they get themselves into diminished capacity on purpose, particularly when this is done illegally, then get into sexual situations that go bad that it is tough luck Jessica. Consent problems are well known to happen primarily after mind altering drugs and drink, consent problems are a foreseeable consequence of engaging in that activity, and if it happens then the primary action of the state should be to try to educate the female on her stupidity, and try to convince her to behave more sensibly in the future. In the interest of fairness the same goes for any man who feels wronged after drunken sex, but I rarely hear about men complaining about drunk sex so I dont know how often than happens.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Consent problems are well known to happen primarily after mind altering drugs and drink, consent problems are a foreseeable consequence of engaging in that activity, and if it happens then the primary action of the state should be to try to educate the female on her stupidity, and try to convince her to behave more sensibly in the future.

And it's the male who should be more aware of those consent problems with drugged or very intoxicated individuals--because consent may not be legally present in such situations, and accusations or charges of sexual assault are foreseeable consequences of sexual contact under such circumstances.

If sexual contact happens under those conditions, and an accusation of sexual assault is made, then the primary action of the state should be to try to educate the male on his stupidity, and disregard of the law, by holding him responsible for his criminal actions.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:09 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And it's the male who should be more aware of those consent problems with drugged or very intoxicated individuals--because consent may not be legally present in such situations, and accusations or charges of sexual assault are foreseeable consequences of sexual contact under such circumstances.

If sexual contact happens under those conditions, and an accusation of sexual assault is made, then the primary action of the state should be to try to educate the male on his stupidity, and disregard of the law, by holding him responsible for his criminal actions


I disagree, the state is morally obligated to write the laws to conform to the gender equality that we claim as our ideal. Laws that codify a no longer believed standard that men are superior to women and thus need to take care of women call into great question the legitimacy of the government.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
BTW: I am not aware that our law has ever declared contracts and agreements done while one or more parties were under the influence of something that they put into their bodies are null. There is no argument other than " we have to save the alleged stupid/weak women" for carving out this huge portion of daily life for state control. No one who knows me will be shocked to hear me say that the state claiming the need to save victims that it can not even clearly produce is not a legit reason for the state to make this wholesale power grab of demanding the right to remove the right to consent to sex from people who have so far as we known since the dawn of the species had the right to consent to sex. I will flat out say that the states right to remove the right to consent ends with the insane and the children. Any law that removes the sexual consent rights from an adult are immoral, unjust, and are invalid. These laws need to be overturned, and civil disobedience is perfectly called for under these conditions of systematic abuse of the citizens at the hands of the state.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

I disagree, the state is morally obligated to write the laws to conform to the gender equality that we claim as our ideal

And we now have laws, and sexual assault crime descriptions, that are written in gender neutral terms. Those laws neither say, nor imply, that men are obligated to "take care of women"--they simply define acts of sexual contact which are considered criminal when engaged in without consent, including instances where the victim is incapable of giving consent because of his/her age or because of his/her temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity.

It is considered criminal to have sexual contact with anyone who is incapacitated by drugs or alcohol, unconscious, asleep, etc. --gender of either party is irrelevant.

You've opposed all the changes to the sexual assault laws that have made them more gender neutral in their wording. You also oppose a "yes means yes" consent standard that places equal responsibility on both parties for assuring mutual consent for sexual acts.

Where we don't seem to have have gender equality is in the area of which gender reports being sexually assaulted more often--women are victimized far more often by such crimes.

Your anti-government soap box pronouncements on this topic became tiresome a long time ago. You don't seem to get it that most women, and not just feminists, want the sexual assault laws enforced. The strongest thrust in that direction is now coming from female college sexual assault survivors, who have formed their own networks, gained their own media attention, and instituted their own lawsuits against their colleges and universities.
 

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