1 in 5 women get raped?

@engineer,

It not rape it is sexual assault define as in did the boyfriend ever pressure her into having sex when she was not in the mood.

Pressure as in whining for example and I could not count how many times in the thirty years sexual relationship with my wife that I had sexual assaulted the poor woman under that meaning of sexual assault.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

The CDC report says rape, not sexual assault.

Quote:

Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives.
• Approximately 1 in 20 women and men (5.6% and 5.3%, respectively) experienced sexual violence other than rape, such as being made to penetrate someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, or non-contact unwanted sexual experiences, in the 12 months prior to the survey.

Hopefully if a researcher questioned your wife, she would not say you ever sexually assaulted her.

3 Replies

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I'm not really sure what you all are debating. 1 in 5 women get raped? That is what the CDC study says. Max asked for a link, Hawk provided one. If you don't like this number provide a link to one that is more to your liking.

That isn't at all what happened in this thread.

My argument is that the CDC study is scientifically flawed and politically motivated. I have listed the reasons the CDC study is scientifically flawed.

I would love to find someone with whom I could discuss this rationally.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Why is "being made to penetrate someone else" not considered rape?

0 Replies

@engineer,

Engineer,

rape or sexual assault,

the numbers are off.

The people that wrote the numbers even wrote "1/4 or 1/5".

Scientists never, ever, EVER tell you it's this or that. People who make up false statistics say "this or that".

1 Reply

@engineer,

Quote:

Hopefully if a researcher questioned your wife, she would not say you ever sexually assaulted her.

They do not ask women if they have been sexual assaulted but such questions as did a man ever pressure you to have sex when you was not in the mood and as I am a whiner and that can be define as pressure I could see my wife checking that box off and thereby getting herself listed as a sexual assault victim.

As I said it is a war on men with special reference on young men who are not in stable and long term relationships by defining sexual assault as almost universal behaviors between men and women.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Here is the report: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf I will fess up to only reading the synopsis but it looks pretty meticulous with a huge sample size, lots of effort going into ensuring privacy to elicit honest response and rigor put into the math. I don't see the political bent here either. It looks like another CDC study to understand a health issue, focusing on both men and women, trying to break things down by age and ethnicity, typical CDC type data mining. Yes, this study was done one time but the study is huge. I'm not sure what your beef is with it.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

They do not ask women if they have been sexual assaulted but such questions as did a man ever pressure you to have sex when you was not in the mood and as I am a whiner and that can be define as pressure I could see my wife checking that box off and thereby getting herself listed as a sexual assault victim.

This is the definition the CDC used for rape in their study:

Quote:

Rape is defined as any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent. Rape is separated into three types, completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, and completed alcohol or drug facilitated penetration.
- -Among women, rape includes vaginal, oral, or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also includes vaginal or anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.
- -Among men, rape includes oral or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also includes anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.

Using that definition, the answer they got was:

Quote:

Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives, including completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration.

1 Reply

@One Eyed Mind,

One Eyed Mind wrote:

Scientists never, ever, EVER tell you it's this or that. People who make up false statistics say "this or that".

Of course, you are right. The report I linked to above is very exacting.

2 Replies

@engineer,

I think maxdancona and I and others have been clear about our problems with those types of surveys with special note of the how they define when a woman had been a victim of sexual assault or not.

I can not at the moment speak to the CDC survey but other similar surveys dating back decades with similar results had been look at and once more most of the women those survey had listed as victims of sexual assault have strongly disagree with the label.

1 Reply

@engineer,

I will need to look at that CDC survey as similar surveys have never been about rape rape but sexual assault to get those crazy numbers.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Fair enough and you can see from the wide variation in past studies some of the confusion, but here is a huge, comprehensive survey with specially trained interviewers with very clear definitions done by the nation's main health organization. An interview lasted on average 24 minutes so it wasn't some slapdash response collected by a college student on work study. Almost 17,000 people were interviewed by an organization that does these types of health studies routinely. They even include a section of the report discussing why and how their results differ from other surveys taken. There are a couple of threads out there right now where posters are bemoaning the politicians who ignore the scientists and experts to push their own political agendas. This report comes from the scientists and experts. This is the CDC, not Manhaters United. Why do you trust them on Ebola and not on domestic violence?

0 Replies

@engineer,

It's not "exacting",

because some people think sexual assault is the same as rape,

other people think sexual assault is spanking a girl on her ass, or suggesting sexual forwarding on them,

and other people think rape and sexual assault is based on Darwinism.

In other words, PEOPLE ARE CRAZY AND IT'S CRAZY TO BASE STUDIES ON PEOPLE, NOT PRINCIPLES.

Geniuses base their work on principles of nature.

Idiots base their work on people when the nature is always bloody changing and mutating into what is simply as bad as eye witness accounts.

Will you look at that... My brain just eliminated the entire social cesspool in one sentence. If we followed intellects who base ideas on principles, not people, opinions and idiocy could no longer exist; intellects and geniuses will rise - no more politicians! No more lies! No more misinformation! Only truth, reason, humanity, love and humor!

0 Replies

@engineer,

Well I did a fast look and already found something that does not smell right on this CDC survey.

By the survey rape is far more common then lesser sexual violence for some very strange reason and I do mean strange reason as rape being claimed to be four times more common then lessor sexual misdeeds.

Someone is playing games in this CDC survey as have been played on similar surveys in the past in my opinion but it will take some research to find the details of the game playing.

Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men
(1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in
their lives.

Approximately 1 in 20 women [ as in 5 percents] and men (5.6% and
5.3%, respectively) experienced sexual violence
other than rape,

13% of women and 6% of men reported they
experienced sexual coercion at some time in their
lives.

Quote:

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf

In a nationally representative survey of adults:1
• Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men
(1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in
their lives.
• Approximately 1 in 20 women and men (5.6% and
5.3%, respectively) experienced sexual violence
other than rape, such as being made to penetrate
someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted
sexual contact, or non-contact unwanted sexual
experiences, in the 12 months prior to the survey.
• 4.8% of men reported they were made to penetrate
someone else atsome time in their lives.
• 13% of women and 6% of men reported they
experienced sexual coercion at some time in their
lives.

College Age
• In a nationally representative survey of ad

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

By the survey rape is far more common then lesser sexual violence for some very strange reason and I do mean strange reason as rape being claimed to be four times more common then lessor sexual misdeeds.

The rape number is lifetime, the sexual violence number is in the last year.

Quote:

Approximately 1 in 20 women and men (5.6% and 5.3%, respectively) experienced sexual violence victimization other than rape by any perpetrator in the 12 months prior to taking the survey.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Strange as I did not see the year time limit on those numbers in fact the CDC is all over the place with their numbers.

Quote:

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf
An estimated 13% of
women and 6% of men have
experienced sexual coercion
in their lifetime (i.e., unwanted
sexual penetration after being
pressured in a nonphysical
way); and 27.2% of women and
11.7% of men have experienced
unwanted sexual contact.

0 Replies

@engineer,

Engineer, let me appeal to the scientist in you...

Here are the scientific issues if have with the study.

1. The questionnaire (which I have already linked to and which is easy to find) is ambiguous in several ways. They never ask the respondent if they were raped instead asking a bunch of questions that could be misconstrued. Many people in an existing relationship have sex when they are "too drunk to consent" (I may have done this myself on occasion). This does not equal rape. The question about whether someone "bothered you repeatedly" for sex is laughable.

2. I could not find the metric they used to decide if a set of responses constitutes rape. Was there affirmative answers to a set of questions that put the respondent in the "rape victim" column? I couldn't find which questions they used. Can you?

3. The response rate was very low (around 30%). They raised the response rate by offering a $40 inducement to respond. I didn't see where they say what the final response rate way. There is no way to guess how this affected the responses or the overall results.

4. The positive responses for rape were 10 times higher than the NCVS survey. The NCVS survey asks the obvious question -- "Has anyone ever used physical violence or the threat of physical violence" to force you to have sex.

5. The CDC study was commissioned specifically because there was political pressure to find higher numbers.

I am a reasonable guy who responds well to a scientific argument. If anyone could find the raw data (i.e. how many people responded 'yes' to each question) rather than these researchers interpretation of the results, it would go a long way to persuading me.

For example, if near 20% answered 'yes' to any of the "Physical force" question on the questionnaire, I would be surprised... and this would change my mind.

As I said, the "When you were drunk" question is very poorly worded. They want this to represent the times when someone took advantage of the fact a person was drunk to have sex with them (when they wouldn't have wanted to have sex). The question is ambiguous, lot's of of people might answer yes when they were drunk and had consensual sex.

And Engineer, if you step back objectively as an engineer and look at this study, you could easily list a dozen reasons that this number may actually be lower than the results show. The respondents could be skewed (given the low response rate). People could have been trying to please the interviewer (particularly given the financial reward). People could have misunderstood the questions.

Read the "limitations" section... and tell me that it isn't funny.

3 Replies

@maxdancona,

And what do you think would have happened to the reputations of these CDC researchers if the results they received were closer to the NCVS numbers that were so politically unpopular?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

What do you think would happen to them?? I don't understand why you are playing a numbers game with victims of rape in the first place. It really doesn't matter how many get raped, it matters that the victims get justice for the rape.

3 Replies

@maxdancona,

The too drunk to have consent to sex is indeed a interesting question as once more my wife and I are not normally heavy drinkers but when in Cancun with an all you can drink and eat plans we both let our hairs down so I am sure without question that we both was far under the influence when we have sex a number of times in Cancun so my wife filling out that survey could indeed check the box about having sex while being too drunk to drive or consent to sex.

1 Reply

1 in 5 women get raped?

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