1 in 5 women get raped?

You're missing the whole point here. I'm not talking about the biological aspect of it. I'm talking about the psychological aspect. And I'm not so sexually inexperienced that I don't realize the differences in what it takes a man to get aroused vs. what it takes for a woman to be. But that's kind of the whole point. Women get aroused by men being forcible. It's a mental thing. That's why the dominant forms of porn for the sexes are so drastically different. Women read those books because they like the actions taking place in the stories; they like knowing that the man is "taking charge". Men on the other hand mostly enjoy the visual aspect of sex. They enjoy what they perceive to be "good looking" women naked, and that's pretty much it. That's all they need. Just look at the differences between male and female strip clubs. Men just want to see tits and pussys. Women want a whole fuckin' storyline where that man is wearing some motherfucking costume that symbolizes some profession that's deemed by women to be "manly" (i.e. dominant.) And even when male strippers get naked, they still have to be wearing some fuckin' item of clothing that symbolizes their role. Because even when men are naked women still want to be reminded that they have a job.

And saying that what men want is a woman who knows their way around a male body in the same way that women want a man who knows their way around a female body is like saying "You have to find a human who knows how to please a dog by feeding it the right stuff, just like you have to find a dog that knows how to please a human by feeding it the right stuff." The two are not comparable. I don't like comparing men to dogs, but like dogs they are pretty much happy with whatever you feed them. As long as it's got a pussy attached to it. Women are not like that. It's always gotta be some fuckin' huge mental undertaking on the man's part to first learn all the elaborate "quirks" that the woman does and does not like, and then to be able to replicate those things in a way that keeps the woman on her toes.

Like I said, it's not really about biology with women, it's MUCH more about psychology, and really it's about being one step ahead of a woman's innate mental illness in order to project a sense of dominance on her (which is what women really want in a man, no matter how much they outwardly deny it.)



Oh, but they DO belong in a discussion about rape. And that's because I've even had the experience of a woman I had just met telling me the next day that she wished I had just held her down and fucked her. We had been making out after meeting at a party. I was trying to undress her or get my hand inside her clothes and she kept pushing it away. I took this as a sign that she didn't want to have sex with me, and so I ended up leaving. The next day she told me that she was really into making out with me and wished I had just ripped her clothes off and fucked her. I told that I was confused because she was pushing my hands away. She said that she does that in the hopes that the man will get frustrated and just take her forcibly. How fucked up is that??? Like I'm just going rape a woman on the off chance that she might like it???

And see, that's female psychology. It really is comparable to mental illness. Men are expected to just know what EXACTLY a woman wants sexually without any prior experience with her. And if they don't have the I dunno, 'telepathic ability' to do this, then they will often get taunted or at least teased or dropped by the woman after the fact. And then feminists have the goddamn nerve to proceed with this affirmative consent/yes means yes bullshit! As if it's not challenging and nerve racking enough to deal with sexual relations with women already!

And I don't appreciate the way you're twisting my words here by somehow relating what I said about liking it when a woman is aggressive with me because I don't have to do the "work", to a rapist ******* an unconscious woman because he doesn't like doing any "work". That's a horseshit comparison and you know it. And you also know what I mean when I say that sometimes I like a woman dominating me.



Well then tell that to all those women who bought 50 Shades of Grey in ******* droves. From what I've gathered on my time on this earth, it's that people generally support things that they enjoy. So I guess all those women who bought that book are rape apologists then?

And this thing about rape being about power/dominance is DEBATABLE. I realize that saying that goes against the narrative that feminists have sold us, but it's true. Sometimes rapes happen just because someone wants to have sex right then and there. I would argue that this is often the case in "rapes" that happen within the context of an established relationship or a marriage.



Incorrect. According to I believe it's the CDC (which I'm pretty sure the law has co-opted now), rape is defined differently dependent upon who's doing the raping. They've defined "real" rape to have occurred when unwanted penetration has occurred. Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that during the human act of sex, one gender inevitably penetrates MUCH more often than the other. When a male is raped by a woman, they define it by a different term called "Made to penetrate", which is seen as a lesser offense even though it's no less damaging to the victim. There have even been cases where women have raped men, gotten pregnant, and then sued the man for child support. Even cases where the man in question was a child and the woman an adult!



And you know why that is? It's because those men are saying to hell with even dating or pursuing women on their campuses anymore. Men are wising up; realizing that our culture unfairly views them all as potential rapists, and saying "**** this, I'll go elsewhere to meet women." They realize that dating women on their campuses isn't worth the risk of ruining their college career if some woman decides to call her own bad judgment "rape" the next day when the booze wears off and the reality of her embarrassing behavior sets in.



Ah, but the reasoning you often use in your arguments echoes feminist rhetoric. And that's the thing; if you or anyone else doesn't speak out against the hateful ideology that feminism is then you're all complicit in it. It's like watching someone get murdered right in front of you and not calling the police.

You often say that you're not a feminist firefly, why is that? Could it be that on some base level you realize that feminism is hateful? Could it be that you don't want an association with a hateful ideology? I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to be associated with the KKK. But then I also don't echo white supremacist rhetoric when I speak either.

my post^ was literally just voted down in less time than it would take to actually read it (let alone think about it.)

I also tend not to be at all forward in approaching women all my life but once when as a college student I surprise myself and if it was not the late 1960s instead of the current times I might had been facing one of those wonderful panels that men hating feminist such as Firefly had force the universities to set up by way of the Federal government.

While walking through the student union a breathtaking young lady pass me by and I found myself doing a 180 degree turn and following her into a cafeteria line.

Telling her with some truth at the time that I had just fallen madly in love with her at first sight.

We ended up dating for around 6 months until she let the area for Boston.

I feel sorry for both the young men and young women that now such an approach would likely get you on a youtube sexual harassment video and or a university hearing.

Perhaps some people are like me and just sort of scan some posts to get the gist of it and it is the gist they voted down.

Men and women all come in different styles with different things which makes them tick. Putting all men or all women in one generalized bracket is just incorrect.

For instance, I will not read a book where a man is an insensitive dominant jerk. On the other hand I will not read a book where a woman is the same. My favorite hero is an elegant dresser who is often a reformed rake who is very considerate of the heroines needs and wants because he loves her above all else. He doesn't try to change her but is ready to help if she needs and wants it. The heroine is the same. I never even looked at shades of grey. In fact I won't read a modern romance novel unless it is a Anne Rice one simply because I love the main villain in her vampire novels who by the way is not a dominate manly jerk but a nice dresser and good looking.

Just saying from this woman's view anyway.

Where do people around here stand on the Bill Cosby rape accusations?

My take: it was a very long time ago, and the lack of ability of the one who calls herself victim to move on is sad. I feel much the same here is I do with Dylan Farrow's accusation against her father in this regard, though in Dylans case I bet she actually thinks it happened because mom plated the idea, this family has been ripped apart by Mia's hate.

Otherwise, absent a many females coming forward to accuse Cosby I am not willing to give much thought or care to this accusation. If he is (probably a was given his age) a sexual predator then he assaulted a lot of women. What we have now is after an almost entire life a few women claiming that they were not not happy with their sexual experiences with Cosby. It is doubtful that they ever would have stay quiet given the money he has that could be transferred to there accounts, and they certainly would not stay quiet now.

First you complain it's difficult to know what a woman wants sexually, Well, if you want to know what a woman wants sexually, or doesn't want sexually, you ask her. But, then you complain about "Yes means yes"--which simply requires that you ask her if something is desired, to establish consent. "Yes means yes" clarifies the consent issue beyond just "No means no". Particularly when you are with a woman you have no experience with, seeking affirmative consent makes the most sense, and you've yet to come up with an objection to it that makes much logical sense.

If you want to avoid crossing the line into rape, you must be sure you have consent.

And they do it without consent. Well, you just can't have sex "right then and there" with an unwilling partner, or in the absence of consent, unless you are prepared to face a rape charge. We are not free to express all our impulses, at all times, in all places, to all people, without consequences--that's the price we pay for being civilized.

You appear to have difficulties in your relationships with women that go way beyond this topic, and you resort to a lot of inaccurate and over generalized thinking about women which you seem to be using to rationalize your difficulties and frustrations. You sound like you have been conversing with a lot of other similarly angry and frustrated men on the various internet men's sites, which are the equivalent of the more extreme embittered and angry women's sites. Your groups blame women, their groups blame men, and neither of you are right.

I'd suggest that, if you really want to understand women, you start communicating with them, and listening to them--as individuals. And thinking about them as individual human beings and not just "a pussy" you want to get into. And talk to some men who enjoy good relationships with women, who appreciate them as people, and who aren't hung up about just getting laid. That's assuming you want to have some sort of mature, satisfying, lasting relationship with a woman. Right now, you sound pretty juvenile to me.

Because I pay very little attention to current feminist thinkers and writers, and when I do come across them, they don't significantly affect my thinking at all, nor do I find them very interesting,, and I don't think we need a particular advocacy group, like designated "feminists", to express or pursue the interests of women right now. Women, as a whole, along with men, can move toward jointly shared goals of more social, political, and economic, equality for women in society.

I don't see feminism, as a whole, as at all hateful. It's a highly diverse special interest group, with divergent, and often conflicting, points of view on a great many issues, but, as a movement, it may no longer be entirely necessary in this country. It certainly was necessary when women were fighting for the vote, and again in the 60's and 70's when women were fighting for civil rights and equality of opportunity, but, right now I don't see similarly major societal issues that require that sort of organized advocacy by gender. Women can, and do, address "women's issues", and we'll continue to address "women's issues", mainly because we've begun to acquire the political clout to do that. But more of this is now done in collaboration with men, and it doesn't involve a clash or conflict of gender interests.

I think you often confuse "feministic rhetoric" with female perspective on issues. And because you are so obsessed with feminism, and it's alleged evils, and you need an opponent to rant against in this forum, you'll continue to insist I'm a feminist even when I tell you I'm not. Your problem is you really don't listen--particularly to women.

And I just don't share your views about how men, as a group, are disadvantaged, powerless, mistreated, deprived, abused, victimized, etc. in today's society--men still remain firmly in control of the political and economic power structure of our society, and women are just climbing up that ladder. You do more whining and blaming of the other gender than the most angry obnoxious feminists you hate--and listening to either of you, in your entrenched positions, is equally tiresome, irritating, and non-productive.

In a topic about rape, I'd rather discuss the issue and crime of rape and not one of your various repetitive rants which has been delivered for the umpteenth time. Rape is a crime most often committed by men against women. So it will be mainly men that suffer the legal consequences of such unlawful actions. I can't help that, and neither can you, that's reality. And that does not mean that all men are regarded as rapists, or potential rapists, that's absolute nonsense, along with the notion that the sexual assault laws are "out to get men"--they are meant to deter the crime of rape. Most burglaries are committed by men as well, do you see the laws meant to deter burglaries as out to get men too?

The topic of Cosby deserves its own thread, if you really want to pursue it, I doubt it will receive much attention here.

I haven 't read anything about it, I used to like Cosby, loved his show and I liked his voice in Fat Albert, watched that show when I was little.

In any event, I might look it up. If it is who I think it is without knowing anything about it, it might explain why she was off the air for a little while on the show.

I am curious if a woman or boy is ever believed by some here when an accusation of rape is made.

I am not sure if he is guilty and if guilty of what as for example offering or implying to some young woman of consensual age that she is likely to get ahead if she is "friendly" to Cosby is shameful but it is not rape.

It would be the same as if he offer her cash for sex and she agree to it.

Somehow I can not see him holding down some woman and raping her and I do not think that what is being claimed.

The whole thing is sad in any case.

I've been listening to them discuss the Cosby situation on CNN all afternoon. Apparently, 13 sexual assault accusations have been made about him over the past 9 years, but I never heard about any of them.

This article, by one of his accusers, complains that no one in the public or the media took the matter seriously until a male comedian commented on it recently.


Here's more background info.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/showbiz/tv/bill-cosby-rape-allegations/index.html

I'm not sure there is much point in discussing the allegations here, I can't see what would be accomplished by doing that. We have no way of determining the truth of what occurred and there is no legal case going on or pending. This just seems to be something that exploded in the social media recently, and it has caused a hit to Cosby's wholesome image.

And that consent IS NOT always expressed verbally. In fact it's much more common to be expressed non-verbally. And VERY often , if a man asks these questions out loud he will not be having sex period (as the access to sex is granted solely by women in a true power imbalance granted by nature. Hopefully one day science will equalize this imbalance, then there will be much less discord between the sexes. Because when availability to sex is ubiquitous, I'd bet the farm that issues like rape and many other social ills will become things of the past entirely.) ...And women do not respect men who do not take charge in the realm of sexual relationships.

I'm still waiting for you to explain the popularity of 50 shades of Grey to me if women don't enjoy being dominated sexually. I'd honestly like to do some sort of study asking women if they've ever indulged in rape fantasies. I'd be willing to bet that the results would be surprising if collected truthfully.



And yet in Sweden for instance where feminists control the government, if a man refuses to have sex with his wife when she wants it, that act of defiance is considered a punishable crime.



You couldn't be more wrong. Not that it's any of your business, but I've actually decided of my OWN FREE WILL to focus on my career right now, and haven't been involved with women since this past summer. This has been a liberating experience, and has also freed up a lot of extra time and money (cha-ching!) But most of all it's made me happier, because I've eliminated the CRAZY from day to day life!

That you're again falsely painting the men's movement as a source "frustration" and "embitterment" shows how little you know about men's issues. That you're unable to see any group of men getting together to bond and talk about things that are important to them as anything more than being "angry" exposes your bigotry further. I hate to break it to you, but sometimes men just like to get together because they enjoy hanging out and talking with other men! Not everything in the universe revolves around you women (much as to your ego's dismay)!



And the same can be said for women. If women really want to understand men, they should start listening to them as individuals, and thinking about them as human beings. They should start allowing them the same amount of autonomy as women have. They should quit thinking of them as walking ATMs and wallets. They should quit thinking about men in terms of their utility. If women choose to follow their hypergamous nature of always scheming to find a "better deal" in terms of a man with more money/resources, or whatever, then those women shouldn't be surprised when men treat them like their only value is their pussy in return. It's a two way street lady.

Because you see, women are viewed by society as having AUTOMATIC worth as a human being, regardless of the merit of their individual deeds. Men on the other hand MUST constantly prove that they have human worth. The minute that a man loses his job, gets sick, or otherwise has a circumstance that causes him to be "unproductive" to society, he loses his "worth" in the eyes of the world. That's why the VAST majority of the homeless are men (and yet there are ZERO male only homeless shelters, while female only homeless shelters/resources are abundant.) Women are viewed as human BEINGS. Men are viewed as human DOINGS.



Honestly I have no interest in ever getting married, or probably even having a "long lasting relationship". Because in the eyes of the law, men have FAR fewer rights in marriages and relationships than women do. Marriage gives the woman a loaded gun that she can fire at the man whenever she chooses on a whim that she wants a payout at his expense. No thank you. I have plenty of female friends that I enjoy, and until recently I've had sex regularly. I will continue in this manner with like minded people. I've never had trouble meeting women, but I'm not about to allow myself into a situation where the state can legally cuckold me. And that to me sounds about as far from juvenile as one can get.



And yet feminists continue to control the narrative in education, the media, and the government. If you really feel this way, then how about speaking up? But first how about doing some unbiased research. Take a look at some of those terrible "men's groups." Maybe join a forum on AVFM, and just read what people are saying. Just take it in, if for nothing else other than to prove yourself "right", that those "men's groups" are "awful". You've got NOTHING to lose just by observing, and everything to gain. You might even be shocked to find out that some of their most well known personalities are WOMEN. Do a search for Karen Straughn, Erin Pizzey, Janice Fiamingo, Anne Cools, Janet Bloomfield, The Honey Badgers, Diana Davidson, etc. ALL WOMEN! (and awesome women at that!) Watch a few videos!




...Then why is it still around, still acting like it's still day 1 and women have made no progress?



Flat out false. Feminism is alive and well, and it's a female supremacy movement. It DIRECTLY harms men.



Every part of this is incorrect. I'm not obsessed with feminism. If anything, I'm obsessed with gynocentrism which is a different albeit related thing. If you say you're not a feminist, fine. Prove it. Start doing some REAL digging from all sides. If you find something related to feminism or gynocentrism that is unethical or immoral, SPEAK OUT ABOUT IT. And honestly you shouldn't have to dig very far if you allow yourself to be honest with yourself.

People who say "I'm not a feminist", but then go on to agree with feminist ideology and look the other way when feminism or gynocentrism cause OBVIOUS harm to society are no better than feminists themselves. If you read a story about a white man wearing a t-shirt that said "I bathe in nigger tears", and he swore he was wearing it to be "ironic", what would your honest gut reaction be?



That seems to me to be their own choice because women make up more than 50% of the voting public, and last I checked that was considered a majority. The truth is that if women want things to change they have the ability to do that. In fact they have an open door. And yet it seems that a majority of women would rather play the damsel in distress and blame an imaginary "patriarchy" for their problems instead of putting their money where their mouth is and running for office or even just admitting that they have more voting power than men do, and using that power to take responsibility for themselves.



I've never once stated that men are "powerless". However men are mistreated and disadvantaged in relation to women in society. But that doesn't mean they're "oppressed". The fact remains that there are ZERO legal rights that men have that women don't; and yet there are several legal rights that women have that men do not. Also culturally it's acceptable to think of and treat men as having less human worth than women. Men are angry about this, and can you blame them? Being a punching bag is no one's idea of a good time.




FALSE. It's actually almost equal in regards to which gender rapes most, with men only slightly above women depending on where you look. The percentage of the population (both male AND female) who rape is a VERY small number of people. And most of those people rape MULTIPLE times as opposed to lots of people who rape only once. Just like murders, rapists are NOT a huge percentage of society. And see, this is again where you're regurgitating biased feminists statistics from the likes of people like Mary Koss. And then you wonder why I might think you're a feminist? Guess what? Women are also just as violent as men are. These things are reciprocal. Men are not boogiemen.

We live in a society that demonizes men and masculinity based on false statics and incorrect information that is perpetuated by media, education, and government that is OVERRUN with feminists, gynocentrists, cultural marxists, and social justice warriors.

If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. Either step up and help out, or shut up and get out of the way.

And lastly, I really think you're confusing having a sense of humor with being "juvenile". The day I cease to to able to use language to entertain my own self is the day I die.

haha, It's all because of ma-soggy-knee!

Ma knees are so soggy!

I know somebody who worked with him once. Said he was an asshole. Of course that has nothing to do with being a rapist.

I'm more curious on what the statute of limitations is on something like that. Sounds like if it did happen, it happened a very long time ago.

I suggest you don't try to understand women by the popularity of 50 Shades of Grey. Read the negative reviews of that book on Amazon.com, they tend to be quite funny. I haven't read it, and it sounds so badly written I don't care to. People bought the book for all sorts of reasons, including curiosity about all the buzz and controversy, but not all of them liked or enjoyed it.

Some women enjoy erotic literature, or romance novels, or rape fantasies, these are all harmless escapism in controlled form, generally with a romantic component and a charismatic or intriguing male, but that doesn't mean they want to actually experience these things when they are not under their control, or that they want to be dominated and subordinated sexually by all men all the time, regardless of what they want. Do you think women really want to become involved with vampires too? Does a man who enjoys action movies really want to walk out of the theater and find bombs and trucks exploding all over the place, around him, in the real world?

I'm really tired of listening to your A Voice For Men canned spiel and I think drinking so much of Paul Elam's Kool Aid has affected your capacity for objective and rational thought. All your carping and whining about an alleged feminist/female supremacy conspiracy doesn't do a thing to rectify any of those problems you feel disadvantage men. Don't blame women if they are better organized and more effective lobbyists to accomplish their societal goals--and they don't accomplish those goals by just yakking on internet forums.

Meanwhile, why don't you go find some hard core feminist to dump your AVFM propaganda on. You can yell, "Gynocentrism!" at her, and she can yell, "Patriarchy!" at you, and the rest of us can focus on the topic.

The topic is rape--the crime of rape.

To include a debate over what would be the proper definition of rape, and how should the collective deal with it. The government may or may not speak for the majority of the citizens on this subject, which is why this debate had been running about 5 years here at A2K.

have you not heard? The feminists were successful in largely eliminating the statutes of limitations on sex crimes, under the argument that these statutes get in the way of beating on men. The purpose of the statutes, to allow citizens a reasonable chance to defend themselves from state actions against them goes unmentioned. It just is not important to the people who write our sex laws. Crimes in the erotic life are the new crimes of the Devil, any and all actions to do away with them are considered to be appropriate. As we have seen over and over again so much as asking questions while being open to the conclusion that these laws are either misdirected or go overboard gets one called a rape apologist, with loud demands that your questions and any doubt voiced be ignored.

When discussing a crime, the "proper definition" is the one contained in the state criminal statutes. Criminal statutes clearly define the act considered a crime. That is true of all crimes, including "rape".

The "collective" has already decided how to deal with it--state legislatures wrote the sexual assault laws and voted them into effect. In that regard, the government does speak for the majority of citizens, who accept these laws, abide by them, and are not calling for their repeal.

For the past 5 years you've mainly griped about the government passing any laws to control non-consensual sexual activities, and your views hardly represent the majority in society, who support these laws. In five years, I don't think five people at A2K have even agreed with your position on the matter.

Our society has already defined rape, now the focus should be on better enforcement of the laws, and prevention of such crimes/I].

http://able2know.org/topic/259824-1

A couple of days ago.... He's accused of "rape" ...

I don't know. Generally, the women are wearing something hot, or in a fantasy costume of some description before they take their clothes off.

Women understand men have fantasies too. Didn't you ever want a woman to dress up as a Nurse with garters? I'd say so..

So what's wrong with me wanting to perve on a Policeman? Though I have to be honest, I'm happy for him to take his jocks off as well and have a view.

Don't you ever get tired of distorting the truth in order to promote your propaganda and feminist conspiracy theories? And then you claim to be a "truth seeker"?


Only 8 states have no statute of limitations on sexual assaults--42 states do have a statute of limitations on such crimes.

27 states have a DNA exception that can extend the statute when DNA evidence is uncovered which can lead to a prosecution.

Your statement that, "The feminists were successful in largely eliminating the statutes of limitations on sex crimes," is just factually untrue.