Cigarettes don't kill people, people kill people

Yes, drinking and smoking DO go together.

I have a friend who has given up about 6 times so far - (she can smoke happily through heavy nasal infections and bronchitis!!!!).

She always falls off the wagon when she goes out and drinks heavily - just as soon as she has a few and her guard goes down - back on the cigarettes - "I just can't be pissed without a cigarette in my hand" - (pissed means drunk in Oz - pissed off means angry.)

I used to smoke OPs after I had given up at parties - (they didn't make me want to smoke again) - until I got used to divorcing the drinking/smoking thing.

So much of the thing is habit, eh???

Actually, the coincidence is cruel - because both contribute mightily to the oral and throat cancers - and smokers and heavy drinkers get a very major double whammy.

DON'T use mouth rinses to try to help with the smoker's breath, folks - most of them seem to contribute to that cancer problem too - they are irritant - and often alcohol based!

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I don't understand why people smoke when there is so much fine crystal meth around.

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More addictive, isn't it?

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Not sure there bunny, given that I've never tried either. Meth is illegal though.

I'm not terribly self-righteous about being a non-smoker. I happen to love the smell of a really good cigar. There are some brands of cigarettes that do annoy me, Marlboros and DuMaurier come to mind. I think that all humans are addicted to something, some habits being more healthful than others of course. Each to their own, within reason. I only take issue when a habit causes direct harm to others, which smoking does, sorry to say it. Smoke if you want, I don't give a crap, but both sides need to give a little, in terms of respect for the other.

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I actually love the smell of a smoker. There's something familiar about it..........and pleasant. But still, I can do without it and even put up with the irritability the goes with the act of not smoking. I would rather, because smoking will kill ya. But I am sorry it's so hard to do.

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My wife is a smoker. I have never asked her to quit or preached to her about it. It hurts me to see her do this to herself, but she already knows by example of her father's fate what happens.

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cavfancier wrote:

I only take issue when a habit causes direct harm to others, which smoking does, sorry to say it.

That has never been proven. The "fact" that second hand smoke is harmful is pure propaganda.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

I agree with the no smoking in public places laws right up until you get to the Bar. This is a place where people go to poison themselves

This is put perfectly. Let us pause to consider the profoundly revealing exactness of this phrase.

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Only one question: Why do people smoke?

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I have never said anything to a smoker in person --I reserve my venom for anonymous forums like this-- but I find smoker's attempts to frame the debate as one between virtuous freethinkers and self-righteous busybodies to be extremely self-serving and annoying.

I have an illness called Meniere's disease. Among its many fine symptoms are dizzy spells that can last up to eight hours, during which I am unable to stand, eat, drink, or even focus on anything other than the misery I am in. Smoke can trigger these spells. In fact, when I was diagnosed, the doctor said that if I didn't avoid smoke, it wouldn't matter what else I did- the spells would be unmaneagable. Obviously, I avoid smokers.

Then there are people with respiratory problems, including asthma; ask them whether second hand smoke is harmful, as they fight for the breath that smokers value so little.

I understand the addictive property of tobacco, and that it is probably beyond the willpower of many smokers to quit. But no amount of bombast should be able to turn this very human weakness into a virtue.

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Wow, some rediculous statements I'm reading...

People in wheelchairs don't choose to be there, nor are they there because they are addicted to riding in a wheelchair.

Second hand smoke IS harmful. I posted before that a woman died of lung cancer... but her husband was the smoker.

I don't like smoke, but I never ask people to quit... I think, and this is harsh, that the world's population could use a little pruning Smile

I sometimes ask if I can have their parking space when they die... but only if they have a sense of humor about it.

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Meow!

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Greyfan wrote:

I have never said anything to a smoker in person --I reserve my venom for anonymous forums like this-- but I find smoker's attempts to frame the debate as one between virtuous freethinkers and self-righteous busybodies to be extremely self-serving and annoying.

I have an illness called Meniere's disease. Among its many fine symptoms are dizzy spells that can last up to eight hours, during which I am unable to stand, eat, drink, or even focus on anything other than the misery I am in. Smoke can trigger these spells. In fact, when I was diagnosed, the doctor said that if I didn't avoid smoke, it wouldn't matter what else I did- the spells would be unmaneagable. Obviously, I avoid smokers.

Then there are people with respiratory problems, including asthma; ask them whether second hand smoke is harmful, as they fight for the breath that smokers value so little.

I understand the addictive property of tobacco, and that it is probably beyond the willpower of many smokers to quit. But no amount of bombast should be able to turn this very human weakness into a virtue.

Greyfan - I am made ill, too - though NOWHERE near as much as you are! - and I agree that secondhand smoke is dangerous - saying it isn't is just silly - but don't you think that appraoching strangers on the street and giving them unsolicited advice is very rude and, yes, self-righteous?

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A stranger approaching on the street doing that is a busybody. Self righteous. Deserving of contempt. Some posters are trying to put a2k non smokers in that category, but most or all of us are not.

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Not only is it rude, but improbable.

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Peter S. wrote:

Only one question: Why do people smoke?

Like all addicts who use a drug constantly, we do it to feel normal. Nicotine is physically addictive in that your body demands it's regular dose of poison. It is also a very time consuming habit. A person who smokes a pack a day or more spends 2 hours+ a day with a cigarette in their hand, in 15 to 50 minute intervals. Not many habits demand such dedication. Smoking also has an ever so slight calming effect that our minds depend on. After years of smoking, we become dependent on this calming effect because without it we are more jittery and quicker tempered than nonsmokers. It isn't a "high"... it just returns us to where we were when we were non-smokers.

When my grandmother was diagnosed with poor circulation problems, the doctor told her she'd have to choose between her cigarettes and her feet. She chose the latter. 10 years later if you asked her "do you mind if I smoke?" She'd respond "hell no, honey boy, blow it my way!" Even after a decade of living without, she said "a day doesn't go by that I don't wish I could have a cigarette, and in fact, I wish I could have one right now".

Many smokers have worked in jobs where we can smoke if we wish most of our lives and outside of airplanes, there is hardly ever a situation where we are not allowed to feed the beast. I think there can be little doubt that this high level of social acceptance has contributed to so many users becoming abusers. I agree with all of the non-smokers here that it is absurd to compare the rights of addicts with those of non-addicts. I quoted Kicky earlier because I thought his comparison was hilarious. I doubt that he was serious.

Since I don't believe the government exists to protect me from me, I consider societal disdain for my disgusting habit one more good reason to stop doing something I should stopped doing long ago. The power cigarettes have over me is by far my biggest source of shame. Hopefully I will choose to eradicate this source of shame one day soon. A little quick math tells me I've smoked over 200,000 cigarettes in my life already. That is more than enough to establish a pretty fierce habit but frankly, that's probably about enough, period.

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kickycan wrote : "That has never been proven. The "fact" that second hand smoke is harmful is pure propaganda" . ... let me put my question in the simplest terms possible : what would you accept as proof that second hand smoke is harmful ? hbg

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along the lines of second hand smoke : if second hand smoke is not harmful, are automobile exhaust fumes and industrial pollution not harmful either ? after all are they not all "second hand" ? just wondering. hbg

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Peter S. wrote:
Only one question: Why do people smoke?

Like all addicts who use a drug constantly, we do it to feel normal. ...(snip)... Smoking also has an ever so slight calming effect that our minds depend on. After years of smoking, we become dependent on this calming effect because without it we are more jittery and quicker tempered than nonsmokers. It isn't a "high"... it just returns us to where we were when we were non-smokers.

Smoking does relax many, whether they're addicted or not. I smoke, not because I'm addicted (I'm not--I'll very frequently go for a week or more without a cigarette), but because I enjoy it for its relaxing effect, the slight buzz it brings (since I smoke infrequently enough to still get it), and the fact that it can make time seem to pass more rapidly. I sometimes like the smell of smoke too. I think smoking can also be as much a psychological pleasure as it's a physiological satisfaction. And I think many like to smoke because it provides a bit of oral pleasure...Why do some people like to chew gum, suck their thumbs, chew pencils, etc.?

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Greyfan wrote:

I have never said anything to a smoker in person --I reserve my venom for anonymous forums like this-- but I find smoker's attempts to frame the debate as one between virtuous freethinkers and self-righteous busybodies to be extremely self-serving and annoying.

I have an illness called Meniere's disease. Among its many fine symptoms are dizzy spells that can last up to eight hours, during which I am unable to stand, eat, drink, or even focus on anything other than the misery I am in. Smoke can trigger these spells. In fact, when I was diagnosed, the doctor said that if I didn't avoid smoke, it wouldn't matter what else I did- the spells would be unmaneagable. Obviously, I avoid smokers.

Then there are people with respiratory problems, including asthma; ask them whether second hand smoke is harmful, as they fight for the breath that smokers value so little.

I understand the addictive property of tobacco, and that it is probably beyond the willpower of many smokers to quit. But no amount of bombast should be able to turn this very human weakness into a virtue.

My smoking has nothing whatsoever to do with you. I don't smoke because of addiction. I smoke because I choose to. I do not smoke around non-smokers.

My smoking harms only myself except for the fact that it can get self-righteous folk all worked up.

Whether or not you think the characterization of your self-righteousness is annoying or not has absolutely no bearing on its validity.

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Cigarettes don't kill people, people kill people

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