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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2004 04:03 pm
In case anyone was wondering...

Utah, Idaho, and Hawaii all are holding their caucuses/primary today.

61 delegates at stake.

edit: Kerry won Idaho 82-17 over Edwards (hope he enjoys it because that will likely be the margin of victory for Bush in November) and Kucinich finished second, ahead of Edwards, with 30%, in Hawaii.

Dennis' campaign is surging like the waves at Maui. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 03:47 am
I have a technical question about the primary process.

At the Democratic convention, what happens to the delegates of the candidates who dropped out? Do they drop out with their candidate? If not, can they vote for whatever candidate they want? If 'their' candidate endorses one of the running candidates, do they have to vote for him?

I just noticed I have no idea. Your help is muchly appreciated.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 08:00 am
Thomas wrote:
I have a technical question about the primary process.

At the Democratic convention, what happens to the delegates of the candidates who dropped out? Do they drop out with their candidate? If not, can they vote for whatever candidate they want? If 'their' candidate endorses one of the running candidates, do they have to vote for him?

I just noticed I have no idea. Your help is muchly appreciated.


Yeash, I don't have time to catch up on everything in this thread but for a quick explaination - the delegates that were won by people that drop out of the race become "free". They can vote however they want to at the convention. The state level party and the and the original candidate they were pledged to may have some influence over then though. For example, when Gephardt dropped out and then said he was backing Kerry he was, in effect, suggesting to any delegates he had that they should go with Kerry.

For a lot more take a look at http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/more.html
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:18 am
If one can get the convention to go to more that one round of votes, the delegates are free on the second round to change their votes. That's reason you often hear the candidates say they are staying in the election -

There hasn't been a real convention for decades where the candidate isn't known before the convention starts Exclamation
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:23 am
Bill is correct. When I was a juvie political junkie, I used to watch the conventions, hoping for something intesting to happen. Nothing ever did really, except, of course, outside the hall in Chicago in 1968. Now they are far worse, in terms of anything unpredictable occurring.

No more wall-to-wall network TV coverage, either...
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:28 am
Remember my first - Eisenhower in 1956. Saw it on the TV at my grandpa's house. He smoked cigars and chew tobaccy, so I guess you could say it was smell-a-vision.

I remember that my Mom and Dad were gone and he keep threatening that they would never return. And still that convention played on and on. I was 6 years old and didn't realise that was the only thing on. My brother and I were real upset...........
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:35 am
Your grandpa sounds like a character, Bill! Chewed and smoked--not at the same time, I hope. There would have been enough nicotine is his system to send him to space. Our first astronaut...

Back then, it seemed like all the ball players chewed. My brother and I would watch the games on TV and want to be like the players, so we bought Sugar Daddies. These were sticky, sweet brown candy of some sort. We'd get them off the sticks and scrunch 'em in our mouths to create a bulge, just like the players. Gave me the naive idea that tobacco was sweet tasting.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:40 am
D'art, How's your teeth? Wink
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:42 am
Remember it well, also remember the chew gum that came in chewing tobacco type pouches.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:49 am
Bill, I don't remember those chewing tobacco type pouches, but it's probably because they cost more, and we didn't have the $$$. Wink
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 11:55 am
I recall reading about how different players prepared their chew. Some would wrap the stuff into a envelope of pre-chewed bubble gum, then jam the mix into their mouths. Yum!
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 02:15 pm
never could understand that one D' - yech Exclamation
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2004 08:43 pm
fishin' wrote:
Thomas wrote:
I have a technical question about the primary process.

At the Democratic convention, what happens to the delegates of the candidates who dropped out? Do they drop out with their candidate? If not, can they vote for whatever candidate they want? If 'their' candidate endorses one of the running candidates, do they have to vote for him?

I just noticed I have no idea. Your help is muchly appreciated.


Yeash, I don't have time to catch up on everything in this thread but for a quick explaination - the delegates that were won by people that drop out of the race become "free". They can vote however they want to at the convention. The state level party and the and the original candidate they were pledged to may have some influence over then though. For example, when Gephardt dropped out and then said he was backing Kerry he was, in effect, suggesting to any delegates he had that they should go with Kerry.

For a lot more take a look at http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/more.html


Thomas, I believe that's a very important element to take into account in relatively recent US history: the (in)famous Chicago Democratic Convention of 1968 was chaotic partly because of this clause (the key was the fight over the vote of the assasinated candidate Bobby Kennedy's delegates).
American A2Kers, correct me if I'm wrong.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 03:07 am
Thanks, fishin, BillW and fbaezer!
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 08:50 am
velcome Laughing
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:27 pm
Dem debate tonite 9pm est on CNN.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:41 pm
Thanks, Brand X, re the time and the channel. It should be interesting because its a one vs one between Mr Kerry and Mr Edwards. I doubt that they will attack each other; look for a LOT of Bush bashing.
Indeed, conventions used to be a lot of fun to watch, mainly because the outcomes were uncertain. Yawn. -rjb-
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:35 am
Gay marriage - whenever polled on it, people put it near the bottom of their list of priorities. But playing the gay marriage card did yield Bush a momentary spike in the tracking polls, and voters trust him more on it, according to the Rasmussen Reports:

Quote:
Today Bush 48 Kerry 45
Feb 25 Bush 49 Kerry 44
Feb 24 Bush 47 Kerry 45
Feb 23 Bush 46 Kerry 46

February 26, 2004--The latest Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows George W. Bush with 48% of the vote while John F. Kerry attracts support from 45% of the nation's likely voters.

After the President declared his support for an Amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman, 52% of Americans now say they trust Bush more than Kerry on the issue of gay marriage. Twenty-six percent (26%) prefer Kerry.


The Dems do have a card to play here, though (especially among Independents), according to another poll, if they can pull it off: states rights.

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/ABCamend.GIF
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 11:40 am
The current Krugman article.
The Trade Tightrope
February 27, 2004
By PAUL KRUGMAN

You can't blame the Democrats for making the most of the
Bush administration's message malfunction on trade and
jobs. When the president's top economist suggests, even
hypothetically, considering hamburger-flipping a form of
manufacturing, it's a golden opportunity to accuse the
White House of being out of touch with the concerns of
working Americans. ("Will special sauce now be counted as a
durable good?" Representative John Dingell asks.) And the
accusation sticks, because it's true.

But the Democratic presidential candidates have to walk a
tightrope. To exploit the administration's vulnerability,
they must offer relief to threatened workers. But they also
have to avoid falling into destructive protectionism.

Let me spare you the usual economist's sermon on the
virtues of free trade, except to say this: although old
fallacies about international trade have been making a
comeback lately (yes, Senator Charles Schumer, that means
you), it is as true as ever that the U.S. economy would be
poorer and less productive if we turned our back on world
markets. Furthermore, if the United States were to turn
protectionist, other countries would follow. The result
would be a less hopeful, more dangerous world.

Yet it's bad economics to pretend that free trade is good
for everyone, all the time. "Trade often produces losers as
well as winners," declares the best-selling textbook in
international economics (by Maurice Obstfeld and yours
truly). The accelerated pace of globalization means more
losers as well as more winners; workers' fears that they
will lose their jobs to Chinese factories and Indian call
centers aren't irrational.

Addressing those fears isn't protectionist. On the
contrary, it's an essential part of any realistic political
strategy in support of world trade. That's why the Nelson
Report, a strongly free-trade newsletter on international
affairs, recently had kind words for John Kerry. It
suggested that he is basically a free trader who
understands that "without some kind of political safety
valve, Congress may yet be stampeded into protectionism,
which benefits no one."

Mr. Kerry's Wednesday speech on trade seemed consistent
with that interpretation. He decried the loss of jobs to
imports, but was careful not to promise too much. You might
say that he proposed speed bumps, rather than outright
barriers to outsourcing: rules requiring notice to
employees and government agencies before jobs are shifted
overseas, steps to close tax loopholes that encourage
offshore operations, more aggressive enforcement of
existing trade agreements, and a review of those agreements
with an eye toward seeking tougher labor and environmental
standards.

I don't see anything there that threatens to unravel the
world trading system. If anything, the question is whether
it provides enough of a "political safety valve."

The answer, I think, is yes - but only if those modest
measures on the trade front are combined with much bigger
changes in domestic policy.

First and foremost, we need more jobs. U.S. employment is
at least four million short of where it should be. Imports
and outsourcing didn't cause that shortfall, but if the job
gap doesn't start closing soon, protectionist pressures
will become irresistible.

Beyond that, we need to do much more to help workers who
lose their jobs. It didn't help the cause of free trade
when Republican leaders in Congress recently allowed
extended unemployment benefits to expire, even though
employment is lower and long-term unemployment higher than
when those benefits were introduced.

And in the longer run, we need universal health insurance.
Social justice aside, it would be a lot easier to make the
case for free trade and free markets in general if, like
every other major advanced country, we had a system in
which workers kept their health coverage even when they
happened to lose their jobs.

The point is that free trade is politically viable only if
it's backed by effective job creation measures and a strong
domestic social safety net. And that suggests that free
traders should be more worried by the prospect that the
policies of the current administration will continue than
by the possibility of a Democratic replacement.

Put it this way: there's a reason why the two U.S.
presidents who did the most to promote growth in world
trade were Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, while the
two most protectionist presidents of the last 70 years have
been Ronald Reagan and, yes, George W. Bush.

E-mail: [email protected]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/27/opinion/27KRUG.html?ex=1078888184&ei=1&en=c87381bbd0324a8f
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2004 06:43 pm
Report re John Kerry speach from California friends
I received this e-mail from California friends today---BBB

We saw and heard John Kerry last night at theTeamsters' Hall by the
Oakland Airport. Very impressive. Matched only by Diane Feinstein, who gave an excellent introduction.

Also there: Jerry Brown, Cruz Bustamante, and about 2000 others, half of whom had to stand outside to hear him. Because of Connie's charisma, we not only got in , we got seats and a book.

Trust all Californians are voting Tuesday.

My only sighting of a live president was Harry Truman in Detroit on Labor
Day 1948. The following week I turned 21 and two months later I voted for him. Connie saw JFK - the first JFK - in Hawaii two months before he was shot.
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