0
   

2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:20 pm
Not necessarily. It's just curious that this issue never seemed to be even whispered about until Arnold emerged on the political scene...
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:22 pm
Quote:
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 01:32 pm
President of the United States:

No person

Except,
1) Natural born citizen
2) Citizen of the United States, at time of Constiution adoption.

Nor, shall be eligible who,
1) Attained age of 35
2) Been resident of US for less than 14 years.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 03:53 pm
BillW - They lowered the age requirement at one point. That makes your argument that "it is in the constitution" moot. If we can change one requirement, we can change another. (You have heard of AMENDMENTS, right?) Cool
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 04:14 pm
More polls ... for whatever they're worth.

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/NWKgenl.GIF
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 04:17 pm
Craven

I appreciate the thought you put into your last post.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 04:18 pm
nimh,

I don't want to be on your hit list. <shrugs>

I tried my best to give it a "nimh job".
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 04:20 pm
Scrat &c.

I for one see no compelling argument against allowing foreign born citizens to become president. (Or prime minister, in the case of The Netherlands.)

That that means it might be Schwarzenegger too, well, thats the cost of principle ;-).

I'm still kinda intrigued about Arnold Schwarzenegger vs. Hillary Clinton in 2008 (or 2012) ... heh.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 04:25 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
nimh,

I don't want to be on your hit list. <shrugs>

I tried my best to give it a "nimh job".


Yeh. Like I said: I appreciate the thought.

I don't have a hit list, only an ignore list.

Well, there's Timber ... <winks>
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 05:51 pm
Good evening...I hope y'all had a fine weekend. We did. Temps almost up to 60 degrees F.
I believe there is a new thread starting with a poll on the immigrant President issue. I voted Yes; I saw no problem. The authors of the Constitution, as was noted, had a problem with Monarchists retaking our fledgling country. It made sense at the time, probably doesn't now but I don't see any real groundswell (Arnold to the contrary) to change the Constitution now. An irrelevant issue in 2004.

The Nader candidancy? That's also on another thread. As a liberal Dem I wish he would fade away, but it is his right.

Haiti. This situation is, imho, going to blow up in the next month or so. Blame does not belong to Mr Bush alone; Mr Clinton should share it. The US has mishandled the whole thing for years (rjb readily concedes that his knowledge of Haiti is sparse).
The second largest city has fallen and the US has sent in 50 Marines to secure the embassy. okay. But then on NPR was a report that our base in Guantanamo, Cuba was gearing up for storing refugees.
What do y'all think about Haiti and (given the immigration debate) how that might figure into the election in Nov?
Did anything else happen today on the political front? I just got home. -thanks---rjb
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:02 pm
Dare I say "exit poll"? The item below is a few days old, but I only came across it now.

It's interesting not for its bias/slant, which is blatantly obvious (more so even than that of my posts Smile, but because it has two tables that neatly encompass a lot more exit poll info than I had scrambled together myself ...

Quote:
Turning the Tables

[from Slate]
By William Saletan
Posted Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2004

[..] In 10 of the states that have voted so far, the media have conducted systematic exit or entrance polls that clarified how independents voted. In seven of those states, exit polls have also measured how self-identified Republicans voted. What percentages of these voters have Kerry and Edwards won, respectively? Let's look at the numbers:

Code:Table 1 Independents Crossover Republicans

Edwards Kerry Edwards Kerry

Iowa 25 34 N/A N/A
N. Hampshire 13 37 9 29
Arizona 6 33 N/A N/A
Delaware 12 42 N/A N/A
Missouri 28 37 37 30
Oklahoma 34 18 30 7
S. Carolina 48 22 54 16
Tennessee 34 32 28 22
Virginia 31 41 45 13
Wisconsin 40 28 44 18


Among independents in the exit-polled states, Kerry has beaten Edwards in six contests; Edwards has beaten Kerry in four. This month, the candidates are tied with four wins apiece. [..]

The pattern among crossover Republicans is more lopsided. Kerry has won one contest; Edwards has won six.

[..]

[T]he exit polls show that, by and large, Democrats aren't voting for Kerry because they prefer him on the issues. They're voting for him because they think he's the Democrat most likely to beat Bush. [..] In nine states, voters were asked in exit polls to clarify whether they chose their candidate primarily because he "agrees with you" on the issues or because he "can defeat Bush." Here's how Edwards and Kerry performed, respectively, among the "can defeat Bush" voters and the "agrees with you" voters.

Code:Table 2 "Can defeat Bush" voters "Agrees with you" voters
Edwards Kerry Edwards Kerry

N. Hampshire 11 56 14 29
Arizona 6 59 7 32
Delaware 10 71 12 35
Missouri 21 68 29 39
Oklahoma 24 43 32 19
S. Carolina 42 42 48 22
Tennessee 24 58 34 31
Virginia 18 69 28 42
Wisconsin 28 59 39 29


[..] From a horse-race standpoint, I'd rather be Kerry than Edwards tonight. But if I were, I'd be praying that the folks in Table 2 don't find out about the folks in Table 1.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:11 pm
Meanwhile, spare a thought for the Deaniacs ...

Wonkette blog; entry: February 19, 2004:

Quote:
Dean Blog Booty Call

Wonkette operative C.P. points out the real tragedy born of the end of the Dean campaign: Where will earnest young people find love now? (Besides Wonkette sponsor LoveInWar.com, natch.) Writes C.P., "Some folks are mad, some folks are sad, and some folks just wanna hookup before the lights come on."

Posted at BlogforAmerica.com by donovan in SF: "Off Topic: There are no longer topics!!! If you have a secret crush on another blogger get moving! You[r] opportunity to find love on DFA might be fleeting!"

For some, however, the downside of an internet-built campaign is only now dawning. Posted by Maura of VA:

"Donovan in SF . . . I wasn't kidding about the crush! :-) You've made me laugh through my tears more than anybody today, and that's pretty damned attractive. . . I was a little miffed that you sent a hug and kiss to EVERYONE here today, though. ;-)
(PS. You're not, like, 15 are you?)"


<smiles>
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:21 pm
With the upcoming primaries next month, it's gonna be interesting to watch what happens to the numbers between Kerry and Edwards. I have a feeling that "can defeat Bush voters" are gonna change. Just a hunch on my part.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:25 pm
Election 2004

Date Bush Kerry
Today 46 46
Feb 22 46 45
Feb 21 47 45
Feb 20 49 43
Feb 19 48 44
Feb 18 48 43
Feb 17 45 46
Feb 16 44 47
Feb 15 44 48
Feb 14 46 46
Feb 13 47 45
Feb 12 47 46
Feb 11 46 45
Feb 10 46 45
Feb 9 46 45
Feb 8 46 45
Feb 7 46 46
Feb 6 47 44
Feb 5 47 43
Feb 4 47 43
Feb 3 46 45
Feb 2 44 46
Feb 1 43 46
Jan 31 42 45
Jan 30 44 45
Jan 29 45 43
Jan 28 45 42
Jan 27 45 42
Jan 26 44 42
Jan 25 46 41
Jan 24 47 39
Jan 23 46 40
Jan 22 45 40
Jan 21 46 40
Jan 20 48 37
Jan 19 50 35
Dates are release dates Surveys conducted on preceding three nights

RasmussenReports.com
************
If this trend continues till November, I'm gonna throw a party! Wink
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 08:34 pm
I'm not sure I have time, but I'm going to try to finally weigh in on this at more length. (At some point nimh said I'd said some "elaborate" things, I don't think that was a compliment... ;-) )

Basically, I don't think there is anything wrong with, "The exit polls show that, by and large, Democrats aren't voting for Kerry because they prefer him on the issues. They're voting for him because they think he's the Democrat most likely to beat Bush." Kerry and Edwards are not terribly far apart on issues. They (especially Edwards) are trying to differentiate themselves, but except for some stuff about trade, there isn't that much, really. They line up pretty evenly on many, many issues. (I can go back and support this part more later if need be.)

So it comes down to style and how that person stacks up against Bush.

The Vietnam thing, as already shown, is just gigantic. Edwards wasn't there. He didn't weasel out of it, he was just too young. This is something that Bush and co. would be all over. National Guard hoo-ha aside, Bush was a fighter pilot, and according to McGentrix (I don't recall seeing it elsewhere, but I believe him) he actually did some sort of missions at some point, and if there is no comparison -- Edwards was a kid at the time -- he can use that for his whole "War President" thing. That's what he wants, that's what he's been planning and going for from long before the campaign cameras were rolling when he did his flight suit stunt -- the War President, Top Gun, fighter pilot, standing up for our country against the evil people who want to do us harm.

Well.

That huge angle is severely handicapped when the opposition is Kerry, not Edwards (or Kerry/ Edwards, which is what I'm starting to hope for.) Not only was Kerry THERE, but he trumps Bush on all fronts. He was in country, he was under fire, and he was a bona fide HERO. Not just a photo op in a flight suit (then or now.) A HERO, who made tough decisions, who knows what war is really like, who took a lickin' and kept on tickin'. Tough.

That's huge. That has nothing to do with policies, probably shouldn't have anything to do with an upcoming election, but he neutralizes or even makes a liability what I believe was meant to be an enormous aspect of Bush's reelection campaign. Kerry has made it so that the RNC is saying behind closed doors to Republican candidates, "Don't say anything about Vietnam. Let our surrogates take care of it."

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=559758#559758

Now, that's just the fact of Kerry's background. It is not now, and yes, his style has some problems. It has been said, and I'll say again even though I think everyone realizes this, it's not that Kerry is some ideal candidate. He ain't.

He is rich, comes across as too snooty, etc. But for this particular moment, I believe gravitas and a certain remove is more of a benefit than smoothness and charm. There was an article recently that pointed out that during times of war, gravitas is especially valued -- the example given was Nixon (hardly the charmer) beating everyone's favorite uncle, Hubert Humphrey.

Edwards is young. He's pretty. He's smooth. He's a lawyer. He's never seen combat. He's rich. He's a Washington insider. He has many of the negatives that Kerry does, and his positives are, IMO, not in his favor just now.

I personally am equally willing to vote for either. If Edwards pulls ahead and becomes the nominee, well, cool. The single most important personality trait that needs to be personified by the candidate is STRENGTH. Whomever ends up as the Democratic nominee will have at least some of that, since it's been a long, gruelling race, and people like the underdog, too, the scrappy, come-from-behind winner. Currently, though, Kerry the war hero seems stronger than Edwards the lawyer. Or even Edwards the son of the millworker. (I think someone should make a drinking game about that... I'm starting to roll my eyes every time I see it.)

Anyway, I think that on the balance, and I wish I could go and get every scrap of evidence to demonstrate this -- it is from rather extensive reading of online resources, the NYT, and talking to people -- Kerry is the stronger candidate, in many definitions of the word. He is a war hero. He is the frontrunner. (Yes, that lends an aura of strength, even if it's a tautology.) He is tall. (Again, I'm not talking about what should be important, I'm talking about what is important to voters.) He has a full head of graying hair. (Ditto.) He is getting better and better at campaigning -- today I saw a quote that a woman called herself a "recovering Republican" as the preface to asking him something, and he responded, "Well I have a single-step recovery program -- vote for me."

If Kerry is eventually overtaken by Edwards, I think he will have already accomplished something useful -- the Vietnam thing has been very much in the forefront, and Bush looks like at best a son of privelege who used his Daddy's power to avoid facing the same fire that Kerry did, at worst a snotty-nosed coward who somehow weaselled out of doing even the cushy assignment he was given. There is a bunch of money waiting to reverse that impression, but that impression is there, thanks to Kerry, and I'm happy about that.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 09:02 pm
Thanks, sozobe, for your comments. -rjb- is thinking.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2004 09:05 pm
sozobe wrote:
I'm not sure I have time, but I'm going to try to finally weigh in on this at more length. (At some point nimh said I'd said some "elaborate" things, I don't think that was a compliment... ;-) )


Oh, it was ;-)
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2004 01:09 pm
Deaniacs going for Edwards
The Deaniacs have spoken. Well, some of them, anyway. The Edwards campaign announced Monday that the cofounders of Howard Dean's official youth-outreach effort, Generation Dean, are endorsing the North Carolina senator. Student groups at Cornell University and the Rochester Institute of Technology also transferred their support from Dean to Edwards.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2004 01:19 pm
The plot thickens.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2004 02:50 pm
Is it soup yet Question
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 07/19/2025 at 02:24:27