georgeob1 wrote:My impression, reasonable and devoid of preconception, as it is, is that the regular contributors are, by a large majority, quite left wing in their outlooks. Indeed the several European contributors are generally (except for Steve) more centrist than these regulars.
blatham wrote:A more appropriate descriptor for many of the international posters would be 'polite'. What I'm trying to tell you george, what many of us from the international contingent are trying to tell you, is that your notion of 'reasonable center' is like Keith Richards' notion of 'reasonable drug intake'.
georgeob1 wrote:So it is the relatively good manners of our European guests here that makes them appear more centrist or right wing. Let me contemplate that for a moment.
Hehhehheh. That was quite a funny exchange. Yeh, if I were an American leftist posting here I wouldnt quite know whether to be happy with Blatham's comment there either, george ... But yes, Blatham's Keith Richards analogy is spot-on.
The appearance of politeness on the part of Europeans (if there is any) has probably little to do with any question of character. There's so few of us, in any case. Also, I mean - seeing a President Bush Jr. in place is exasperating (not to say scary) enough when one is over here. I'm sure that for someone who is actually an American himself, the thing feels so much more acute and polarised, that it becomes proportionally harder to keep up a reasonable, down-to-earth, polite dialogue about it with his supporters.
Any kind of appearance of politeness surely hasnt got anything to do with being "centrist" in any way. Walter is from the SPD - the Socialdemocratic Party. You don't
have a party that far left in the States - though in Germany it's simply mainstream. I myself am a member of the Green Left in Holland - and that's to the left, again, of the SPD's sister-party here. So a centrist I ain't. Definitely not more centrist than Steve - who is still loyal to Tony Blair's New Labour, a party positioned distinctly to the right of either my or Walter's political choice. So yeh, concerning how that contrasts with your impression, there definitely seems to be a bleed-through going on of finding someone to be polite and thinking (s)he is centrist.
This is where we get to blatham's genius Keith Richards analogy again. To US standards, New Labour, Socialdemocrats, Greens - all of 'em would fit in the furthest-left category of mainstream politics - the category of liberal/progressive politics out left from Clinton. But you'd be squeezing a whole bunch of views in there that in Europe cover the whole centre-to-leftwing range, instead leaving the centre/right positions open to politicians who wouldnt even come up over here. Someone with your opinions, george, or some of the libertarians around here, would for example be left practically politically homeless here - there's just hardly anything like that around (anymore). Whereas to the left of
us, again, you've got your socialists, communists, trotskyites ...
(That may be another reason why perhaps some of us have a style that comes across as centrist. I am used to having to debate with a group of people further left than me, too - those supporting the Socialist Party - so I'm used to 'shooting both sides' - whereas even as a moderate liberal in Texas one is already so far into the left corner that one is probably totally conditioned into targeting fire and criticism exclusively (and fiercely) to one's right).
Anyway. In Latin America, Africa, too, apart from a bunch of conservatives you will find a lot of people with opinions to the left of what is even represented in the US system. If we would really "balance" this board as an international site, I'm afraid you conservatives might find yourself even more isolated as you are already now. The upside of it, however, would be: all those new folks probably wouldn't give much of a rat's ass about TX redistricting, Bush visiting funerals or the evangelical's dangerous deeds, and thus their "fire" wouldnt be half as collectively targeted at the odd Republican wandering into here as it is now.
(Long-ass bloody post, nimh, fer chrissakes)