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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 03:16 pm
Italgato
What tune would you like to hear. I surrender dear. I wonder if after another 4 more years of Bush and a republican majority if there would be anything left to sing to and for. This planet may just be space junk.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 03:25 pm
Now, au, be realistic, don't go Drama Queen on us.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 04:05 pm
Au - When did you lose both your sense of humor and your intellect? I must have been away. It's almost fun sitting back watching you create phrases and points of view to put in my mouth, Thomas', etc. so that you can then "win" the argument against same. Almost fun... mostly a bit sad and pathetic.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 04:19 pm
I thought he was actually making perfect sense on the fillibuster.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 04:36 pm
Scrat
Is that all you got. Ya could have been a contender and turned out to be a stumble bum.

Brand x
Yes I got carried away. He probably wont go far enough to start a nuclear war however, there is always the possibility that he will provoke one. In any event I believe he will leave the economy in ruins and the US for generations to come with massive debt.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 04:43 pm
au, you defnitely have a point on the debt.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:06 pm
There are arguments both for and against the filibuster. IMO, the arguments against are compelling, while those for (not least among which is "Tradition" ..."we've always done it this way") are compellingly less so. Incidentally, I feel the opposite applies to the line-item veto, but thats a a whole other boxcar full of snakes.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:13 pm
Filibustering was used, if memory serves, by Southern Democrats in the old days to thwart civil rights legislation. How times have changed!
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:32 pm
Just the players and the gamepiece change. The game pretty much stays the same, IMO.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:39 pm
Timber
As long as filibuster is valid by the rules of congress it will employed by either party when necessity presents itself. Further, whether arguments against it are compelling or not congress will never change the rules. Why because it is their ace in the hole when they become the minority.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:54 pm
No argument with any of that au ... that hits the nail on the head. It is the way it is, it is all but impervious to change, and thats a damned shame.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 05:57 pm
perseveration=the act of persisting or persevering; continuing or repeating behavior; "his perseveration continued to the point where it was no longer appropriate"
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:10 pm
Gephardt assertively takes the middle road on Iraq - and asserts that America can't back out now - though it should get the UN in. Good stuff.

Quote:
"IF WE WALK out, we are going to have a terrorist training camp that will make Afghanistan look like a Sunday school picnic," Gephardt heatedly told a crowd in Sioux City Sunday. "And if we want to have unending terrorism, here and across the world, then we just walk out and leave it in a total chaotic mess. … If we leave, the terrorists win and we are in big trouble. We have got to see this through." [..]

"Most people believe we’ve got to see this through, but most people believe he (President Bush) is failing us because he is not getting help," the Missouri congressman said. [..] Assessing the Iraq operation, he said, "It’s costing a billion dollars a week. We lost 16 people yesterday. We’re losing two or three people a day and he still hasn’t gotten the help that we need. This is a failure."

Gephardt contended that the United States could and should persuade the United Nations to take over the job of reconstructing Iraq while getting France, Germany and Russia to contribute troops to maintain order.

Gephardt brings passion to Iraq issue
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:16 pm
A snowball's chance in Hell.
Gebs politics are old hat. His tune is generic and his lyrics are mundane. No hits in his repatoire.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:46 pm
nimh
Quote:
Gephardt assertively takes the middle road on Iraq - and asserts that America can't back out now -- though it should get the UN in. Good stuff.


From what we have heard and seen coming out of the White house Bush has been bending in that direction if not the UN at least NATO.
Necessity is the mother of invention Rolling Eyes
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 10:54 pm
Seems to have been a long time since we were on topic...

I met Howard Dean this evening at a rally and fundraiser here. He got some sad news earlier in the day:

Quote:
Every day on the campaign trail, Howard Dean wears an unfashionable black belt that belonged to his younger brother Charlie, a silent memorial to the man who vanished while traveling the Mekong River 29 years ago.

On Tuesday, Dr. Dean, who rarely mentions his family on the stump, interrupted his schedule to announce that a search team had found his brother's remains buried in a rice paddy in central Laos.


http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/11/18/national/19dean.jpg
L to R: Charlie, James, Howard and Bill Dean

Quote:
Dr. Dean has worn the black leather belt with the large, silver-rimmed holes for at least 20 years, and counts his brother's death as a watershed that made him more serious about his own future....

Charlie, 16 months his junior, slept above Dr. Dean in bunk beds, and often led the four Dean brothers in building forts outside their East Hampton country house. Dr. Dean has said that if he were alive, Charlie would be running for president, with him as campaign manager....

On the plane on Tuesday afternoon, Dr. Dean recounted how he learned that his brother had been captured by Communist rebels, the Pathet Lao. The call came in October 1974, as he was heading for a test at Columbia University, where he was taking classes to prepare for medical school.

Dr. Dean said the family later learned that Charlie had spent time in a prison camp, even growing some food in a garden, before being taken off in a truck on Dec. 14 (of 1974). Both of Dr. Dean's parents went to Laos to search, but found nothing. An unsigned letter informed the family of Charlie's death in 1975, Dr. Dean said. ...

(T)he discovery of the remains overshadowed what the campaign had pumped up as a major speech on Tuesday in Houston.

"We know what happened to Enron," Dr. Dean said, speaking to a crowd of 1,200 about a mile from the headquarters of the scandal-plagued corporation. "Moral bankruptcy led to fiscal bankruptcy. And the ethos of Enron is where this president's politics and policies have led us in America."

"When the people take back their government from the powerful few who control it," Dr. Dean said, "we will be able to make real change for the future of our country."
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Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 01:14 am
Yes, Au 1929 the planet may just be space junk.

But then it may not be.

You apparently forget that the renown scumbag, Bill Clinton, sent missles to bomb Baghdad in December 1998( just coincidentally at the time of his impeachment hearings).

Why, scumbag Clinton, the finest mind of the twentieth century assured the American people that Saddam was developing WMD's and would use them.

Don't tell me, Au 1929, that you don't believe Bill Clinton!!!!!!!
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Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 01:28 am
I read P Diddie's account concering Dean's loss.

I sent money to Dean's campaign.

Why?

The most stupid thing any candidate could do at this time is to state that he or she would rescind ALL of the tax cuts and restore the Marriage Penalty if he or she is elected.

USA Today notes today that there will be eight million American families that will get more taxes cut in early 2004.
So I say----------------GO DEAN!!!!!
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 03:06 am
au1929 wrote:
Don't muddy the water, can't you understand it is only invalid or shameful when used by the democrats. Embarrassed

I never said that, and I think I have some rather heated fights with Scrat in my profile to prove the opposite of the view you just attributed to me.

au1929 wrote:
Regarding the tyranny of the majority. Because they the, republicans, hold a majority in congress and as well control the White House they can shove anything they want other than that which is unconstitutional down the publics throat.

That's how a democracy works. If you think that compatibility with the constitution is an insufficient constraint, you must be believing that the American constitution is inadequate. Based on the last 250 years of history, I'm sceptical about that view.

au1929 wrote:
It is obvious that even though they did not recieve a mandate from the electorate {lost the popular vote} they want to govern as if they do.

Tennis matches aren't won by the player who wins the most rallys. Football matches aren't won by the team who wins the most yards. And according to the US constitution, presidential elections aren't won by the candidate who wins the most votes. Many people, including myself, think this rule in the US constitution doesn't make sense. It is nevertheless the rule that has been in place since 1783, and that no party has ever made any serious effort to change. Therefore the rule applies, however stupid it may be, and however little you may like the results.

The Bush administration is a really bad thing in many dimensions. But the way it came into existence isn't one of those dimensions.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2003 07:16 am
Thomas wrote:
The Bush administration is a really bad thing in many dimensions. But the way it came into existence isn't one of those dimensions.

You can always tell a Democrat. You just can't tell a Democrat that.
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