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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:41 am
well, there you go again, pistoff, diatribe and dialectic without substance or support. The Right is indeed fortunate such as you number among the champions of the Left.

Here's a bit of opinion offering a pointed analysis of Democrat tactics, and from a source not noted for alliance with The Current Administration:

Quote:
Left Wing Turkeys, Says Independent Women's Forum
Monday November 17, 2:36 pm ET


WASHINGTON, Nov. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- After last week's talk-athon on Capitol Hill, Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) vowed that the Democrats in Congress will continue to fight against, as he put it, "any Neanderthal" or "right wing turkeys" President Bush nominates for the federal judiciary.

The Democrats, of course, have no choice. Their powerful special interest groups demand this. While the names of these groups may not come as a surprise, their real views and the immense power they exert over Democratic legislators may. Manual Miranda, counsel in Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist's office, recently sent around an email composed of strategy memos that had been obtained from the 2001-2002 period when Democrats ran the judiciary committee.

One strategy memo, to Democratic Senator Dick Durban, said that "leaders of civil rights groups" would be meeting with Durbin and that the "the primary focus will be on identifying the most controversial and/or vulnerable judicial nominees," adding that the groups "would like to postpone action on these nominees until next year, when (presumably) the public will be more tolerant of partisan dissent."

The "real bosses" of Democratic legislators, Miranda concluded, are "the liberal interest groups that more or less tell the Senators when to sit, speak and roll over-and which Bush judges to confirm or not."

Key groups are:

The Alliance for Justice (AFJ): Once upon a time AFJ President Nan Aron commented, "President Clinton has a duty to fill judicial vacancies and appoint jurists who share his views." But that was then. Now, Ms. Aron and the AFJ are waging war against Bush nominees. Is this because President Bush has nominated incompetent men and women? No. While admitting that nominee for the Court of Appeal Miguel Estrada's credentials put him at the top of his profession, Aron argued that Estrada is not fit to be a judge because of his ... views. AFJ innocently purports to favor a "fair and independent judiciary," but its own views that are out of line with those of the mainstream. They oppose all forms of Parental Notification legislation but support educational or service grants to prostitutes. AFJ is supported largely by such elite liberal organizations as the Ford, MacArthur, and Joyce foundations. George Soros, the billionaire financier who has earmarked $15 million to defeat President Bush, also provides financial support to the AFJ through his Open Society Institute.

The People for the American Way (PFAW): People for the American Way was founded by "All in the Family" and "Maude" producer Norman Lear. PFAW President Ralph Neas has charged that the Bush nominations aim at "achieving ideological domination of the federal judiciary." PFAW spearheaded the smear campaign against Mississippi Judge Charles Pickering, nominated to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, outrageously and falsely portraying Pickering as a racist in a paper that gained wide currency in the press. PFAW is particularly hostile to the so-called religious right. It led the anti-war protest and maliciously characterizes those who support the President's policies this way:

"To them President Bush is the state, and, therefore, dissent is treason." PFAW has clout with the media. In fact, the nonprofit foundations of several media giants such as CBS, Disney, Time, NBC and the New York Times made headlines by buying tables at a PFAW benefit last year. Is this really the American way?

National Organization for Women (NOW): This organization should really be called National Organization for Some Women. "When they came across women who didn't agree [with them], they said 'those aren't real women,'" pundit Laura Ingraham has noted. While NOW claims to speak for women, it received a black eye with mainstream women for its support of President Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, despite NOW's long-held view of women as victims. NOW has been vigorous in opposing Bush nominees Priscilla Owen, the Texas Supreme Court Associate Justice nominated to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals; Carolyn Kuhl, the Los Angeles Supreme Court Justice nominated for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals; and Janice Brown, the California Supreme Court Justice nominated for the District of Columbia Court of Appeals. NOW has bragged of opposing these women despite their "gender," but it refuses to recognize all independent-minded women who don't toe the NOW line.


Follow this thread fromTalkLeft, and you'll see Kennedey's remarks are consider bu a number of Liberals to have been ill considered.
Here's a take from The Right:
Quote:
http://michnews.com/artman/images/newlogo3.gif


What Does The Democratic Party Stand For?
By Judson Cox
Nov 18, 2003, 00:40

Senator Kennedy said the "US Senate (would) continue to resist any Neanderthal that is nominated by this president of the United States for any court." Kennedy called Justice Brown (a black woman born to a family of share croppers, elected to the California Supreme Court) and Miguel Estrada (one of the most accomplished Hispanics in America) "Neanderthals." I guess being called a Neanderthal isn't as bad as being called darky or wetback, but the sentiment is the same. Ted Kennedy thinks they are less than human - savages who have no place in polite (white liberal) society. The Democratic Party no longer believes in civil rights; if you stray from the plantation of the liberal elite, prepare to be figuratively lynched ...


There's lots more ... The Kennedy remark will play to the Dem's disadvantage.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:43 am
Thomas
Filibuster is a valid tool of congress. It is meant to prevent tyranny of the majority. This nation is about evenly divided politically. Should those or representatives of those not in power have no say? Let us hope it is used the next time George and his minions decide to go on another misadventure.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:50 am
Pistoff

Quote:
BTW that Medicare Bill stinks like 5 day old fish left in the sun.


Although I would tend to agree with you that is for another discussion
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 07:58 am
timberlandko wrote:
Did anyone catch Wes Clark lose his cool on Meet the Press when Tim Russert used Wes's own quotes to demonstrate Clark's inconsistencies?


I thought he kicked Timmy the Whore's ass who was shotgunning what tiny nuggets of horseshit he could dig up from following the General's horse around.

Now if you really want to see Wes go off (and I obviously mean that in a good way), WATCH THIS.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 10:06 am
au1929 wrote:
Thomas
Filibuster is a valid tool of congress. It is meant to prevent tyranny of the majority. This nation is about evenly divided politically.

That's new to me. My understanding is that tyranny of the majority is conventionally prevented by the constitution, in at least two ways. 1) Changing the constitution requires much more than a simple majority, so the majority cannot change the Constitution to endorse tyranny. 2) The Spreme Court, sooner or later, sacks any unconstitutional law the majority might pass. Are you saying my understanding is mistaken?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 10:53 am
I posted this on another thread, but I think it fits here, too.

Constitutionally, the President is empowered, with "The advise and consent of The Senate", to appoint judges to the various Federal Benches. The operative word in The Constitution on this issue is "consent"; consent means majority vote, that, and nothing more. When The Constitution requires more than a simple majority, such as in the case of the ratification of treaties, it says so in specific. Nowhere is there provision that judicial nominations be confirmed by anything other than a simple majority. By invoking filibuster, the Democrats create the situation that 2/3 of the members of The Senate must provide the consent. Using the filibuster in such manner, the letter and intent of the Constitution are subordinated to partisan obstructionism.

IMO, the Dems, deprived by The Electorate of the power of automatic majority in the Legislative Houses, have abandoned due legislative process. Without the support of The Electorate, the Dems strive to assert unwarranted control through resort to extra-Constitutional practice, sidestepping law. Faced with the probability of defeat by ballot, The Dems seek to prevent the balloting. That is neither in accord with nor in the interest of the principles on which this nation was founded.

I see the Democrat use of the tactic as nothing more than a blatant and base attempt to extract "Payback" for the defeat they suffered in 2000, when the US Supreme Court held there was no legal basis for their claims in the matter of the Florida Elections.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 11:07 am
au1929 wrote:
Filibuster is a valid tool of congress.

Can you point to any other instance in history where it was used to block voting on judicial nominees?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 12:05 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Here's a bit of opinion offering a pointed analysis of Democrat tactics, and from a source not noted for alliance with The Current Administration:


There's lots more ... The Kennedy remark will play to the Dem's disadvantage.


Eh ... from the way you phrase this I suppose we are to take the "Independent Women's Forum"'s criticism as evidence that fellow opponents of Bush - people the Dems should naturally appeal to - are reacting in anger at Ted's misspeak? LOL! What on earth do you mean with, "a source not noted for alliance with The Current Administration"?

For those who havent bothered to check it out - the Independent Women's Forum is what the Village Voice calls (and I'm taking this from their own website) "a sleek, conservative spin machine".

Among its Directors Emeritae? Lynne V. Cheney. Chairman of their National Advisory Board? Christina Hoff Sommers, Author of The War Against Boys & Who Stole Feminism, Resident Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. Who else on there? Well, Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, Elaine Donnelly, Center for Military Readiness, Laura Ingraham, Author of The Hillary Trap, Kate O'Beirne, National Review, Pat Ware, Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS, and three more from the American Enterprise Institute.

Timber, the IWF would probably fire up in indignation at Ted Kennedy if he told the TV-viewers it was going to rain tomorrow ... I dont think their condemnation will hurt - or even remotely impact - the Dems appeal to Independent or Democrat women.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 12:07 pm
Scrat wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Filibuster is a valid tool of congress.

Can you point to any other instance in history where it was used to block voting on judicial nominees?

The Senate's website has a page on "filibuster and cloture". According to it, there was a Republican filibuster against a Democratic President's Supreme Court nominee late in the Johnson presidency.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 12:16 pm
The IWF is indeed more conservative than NOW, but the ideology of neither is pertinent to the gist of the article. I did not characterize them as opponents of The Current Administration, I merely said, apparently to your dissatisfaction, they were not noted for alliance with The Current Administration. They purport to be, and, in my estimation demonstrate that they are, "Independent". In that few of their members are likely to wait in the rain to purchase an autographed copy of Michael Moore's latest work, I suppose they could be classed by some as Administration Pawns, but I just don't see it that way. The messenger of course is involved, but the message is the prime matter at examination.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 12:34 pm
Thomas - Thanks for the info. I was sure that it was not common for it to be used in this way, but couldn't say for sure that it had never happened.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 12:57 pm
Perhaps of interest, if not pertinence, is that the word "filibuster" comes from the word "filibusteros", which is what Spanish and Portuguese pirates of the 18th Century, given to capturing and holding for ransom ships and hostages, called themselves.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 01:13 pm
timberlandko wrote:
I did not characterize them as opponents of The Current Administration


You introduced your source as one "not noted for alliance with The Current Administration", then continued on to introduce your next source as "Here's a take from The Right:".

I.e., apparently we were to believe the IWF was a source not from the right, not noted for allying itself to the Bush admin - or, in short, one whose condemnation should seriously worry the Dems.

But in fact, we're talking stalwart conservatives here, people proud to be so, in fact, and steered by a board of directors and advisory board literally stacked with Bush allies, up to VP Cheney's wife.

Thats saying slightly more than merely that "few of their members are likely to wait in the rain to purchase an autographed copy of Michael Moore's latest work" - although I appreciate your knack for baffling understatements ;-).

Just for the record, in terms of not being "noted for alliance with [or being pawns of] The Current Administration", try a search on "Bush" on the www.iwf.org site for fun, and see how many critical articles you find ... in the top 5 results I got back I found, browsing quickly through them, four reporting favourably - sometimes fan-like, in fact - and one neutrally on him.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 01:17 pm
Posting something from a group with an innocuous name like Independent Women's Forum is a bit of a fraud, is it not? If they're conservative women, that is. Same would be true if they were leftish women.

Let's have some truth in packaging here, OK?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 01:27 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Perhaps of interest, if not pertinence, is that the word "filibuster" comes from the word "filibusteros", which is what Spanish and Portuguese pirates of the 18th Century, given to capturing and holding for ransom ships and hostages, called themselves.


The Spanish just 'translated' the Dutch word 'vrijbuiter' for exactly that, what the Dutch did in 17th century in the Carbean Seas: buccaneersing.

(The later filibusters were pirates, who 'worked' between 1860 and 1870 mainly on the Nicaraguan and Cubanian coast.)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 01:52 pm
see, no wonder i didnt see the problem about the filibustering - i was just going on what my cultural heritage told me was self-evident!
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 01:52 pm
Noted, wWalter, and thanks. Your expansion brings to focus the connection between those two words and the word "Freebooter", which has essentially the same meaning.

Buncha pirates ... Spanish, Portuguese, Democrat, Republican, Cuban, or Nicaraguan ... the practitioners are all pirates, IMO.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 02:12 pm
(Freebooter is from German Freibeuter)
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 02:42 pm
Thomas
Don't muddy the water, can't you understand it is only invalid or shameful when used by the democrats. Embarrassed
Regarding the tyranny of the majority. Because they the, republicans, hold a majority in congress and as well control the White House they can shove anything they want other than that which is unconstitutional down the publics throat. It is obvious that even though they did not recieve a mandate from the electorate {lost the popular vote} they want to govern as if they do. The fillibuster at times is a protection against that tyranny.
Scrat. Bush is a Uniter not divider. Say that three times and your nose will be a foot long. A filibuster is a filibuster as far as I know there is no set of rules governing on what it may be used or for that matter which party can use it. I suppose you would have it revoked when the republicans are in a majority?
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2003 03:06 pm
I wonder whether AU 1929 knows that the Democrats will be singing a different tune re: filibusters after Nov. 2004 when Bush is re-elected and there are 55 or 56 Republican Senators on hand.

Perhaps Au 1929 doesn't know that the following are jumping the sinking Democratic Ship--

Edwards

Hollings

Graham

Miller

It is not far from 56 votes to 60. We shall see. I wouldn't bet the mortgage that these nominees would not be on board after Nov. 2004.
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