2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

Italgato wrote:

But, nimh, were you not the one who thought "body" was needed?

Now, where is your "body"?????????????????

In bed, in a few minutes, I hope ;-).

Listen, the fact that I prefer posts with "body" is why I usually add a playful apology like that whenever I "chat" instead.

Now, to your "body" <grins>:

Italgato wrote:

I gave you some "body" by bringing you up to speed on the situation in Texas where you seemed to be unaware that the Texas Legislature will convene Monday to draw new districting maps which will give Republicans 5 or 6 new seats after November 2, 2004's elections for the House Seats in DC.

I was well aware of that, hence why I didnt react. It didnt change anything about the case I was making (that you responded to by "bringing me up to speed"): that I didnt see how the Reps were going to get out on top with this redistricting thing.

Either they'll fail in Texas, and look pretty dumb; or they'll succeed, and thus provoke Dems to pursue similar redistrictings in the states they control, to the Reps' disadvantage - unless you're gambling that the Dems will be too nice for that? And in the meantime, they seem to be losing the battle for the Texan public opinion about it, but I would like to see data about that, so if you can come up with any, would be appreciated.

In the meantime, thanks for the Zogby poll - didnt you think those were worthless, though?

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I caught up this evening starting with yesterday's NYTimes and today's. The quotes from the Tuesday debate in... forgotten where... were interesting. Dean certainly holds my attention and respect. What particularly pleased me was that we should not take asides in Mid East disputes.

Oh horrors! Did that include Israel?

Yes.

I agree. My vote for Dean is practically cemented in place.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

jjorge,

Why should Sofia not show hostility towards Dean? Do you not show hostility toward Bush?

This comment is a comment about neither candidate but rather in the fairness of asking her to calm down when the anti-Bush hostility dwarfs the anti-Dean hostility.

Are not both hostilities just part of the political game?

Craven,

Point taken. I DO have hostile feelings towards Bush.

What I should have said is that even if Dean HAD indicated a choice of running mate there would be nothing inherently 'arrogant' about that.
(aren't candidates always saying things like "when I am elected...etc etc" and no one says THAT is arrogant)

But, that aside, the fact that Sofia would seize on an unsubstantiated report, and then promptly pronounce Dean as not merely arrogant but so arrogant as to be worthy of the Guiness book of records, indicates to me that her statement flows from an intense hostility rather than from reason.

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Clark to go it alone?
No wonder this is called The Silly Season.

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Clark would NOT be my choice for president. Might the DLC be so opposed to Dean that they would rather run someone they know would lose than have him as president? Shocked

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Hmmm. Well, let me say this about that.

jjorge--
I didn't take any offense to your comment. But, my rather churlish tone about Dean is akin to running free through the same fertile fields of discontent and naysaying you and others enjoy. Bush is fair game, and so is Dean. I did grab on to his rumored shopping for Veep, while it was still a rumor. I'm pretty sure you can find LOTS of similar behavior by others all over A2K. Do think Dean is arrogant, though. News accounts mention this aspect of his personality, as well.

I actually don't feel hostility toward Dean, but want him treated to the same analysis, second-guessing and negative assumptions as Bush. Its that 'fairness' thing again.

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I wish politics had less personality in it. I would love for the hostility to be exclusively directed at issues.

One of the things I most lament about politics is that he who does not demonize loses.

It's sound politics to play dirty and that's a damn pity.

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Word.

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Sofia wrote:

... Do think Dean is arrogant, though. News accounts mention this aspect of his personality, as well...

I can't say with certainty that I know what Dean's personality is like.
I only have impressions. They are based on hearing and seeing him on radio and TV and on meeting him once.

These are my impressions:

He's highly intelligent, ambitious, pragmatic, a quick study and a hard worker. He likes people and is something of a charmer.
He's got a 500 watt smile that is very appealing and genuine. he has the air of one who is basically a happy, self confident person.
He has a temper (not an altogether negative thing) and will not be pushed around.

One person's arrogance is another person's self confidence, I suppose.
We tend to choose the positive term for someone we already like for other reasons and the negative one for those for whom we have an
a priori dislike.

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If I want perfection, I'll never find him/her.

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Arrogance is what kept me uncomfortable with McCain. Dean doesn't have the market sewed up on arrogance. I keep waiting for him to lose his cool in a debate. Not that this is the most important indicator of a man--but, in the current state of affairs--a cool head is more important than ever. And Dean's rep in this area lends to belief that this is a major weakness.

Additionally, the voting masses don't like to see a Presidential contender make wild accusations and be nasty in public. Bush did pretty well in this regard last time around. I am moderately concerned about this time. He's been dragged around pretty indelicately by Dean. I wouldn't be surprised if these two both lost their cool.

Remember how stupid Gore looked when he 'ran up to' Bush in one of their debates? And, Bush gave him that schoolyard look? That was weird. If its Dean and Bush, I think it will be worse. I can imagine Dean and Bush handlers already schooling them on calmness, and thinking about Valium.

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Zogby:Gore, Busn in Dead Heat for '04

Silly season indeed.

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Sofia wrote:

Arrogance is what kept me uncomfortable with McCain. Dean doesn't have the market sewed up on arrogance. I keep waiting for him to lose his cool in a debate. Not that this is the most important indicator of a man--but, in the current state of affairs--a cool head is more important than ever. And Dean's rep in this area lends to belief that this is a major weakness.

A capacity for righteous anger isn't necessarily bad. The main thing is that a president cannot be governed by his emotions. On the other hand excessive coolness can indicate a lack of passion about anything.

Mike Dukakis is a very bright guy who did a heck of a job as Governor of Mass. However, during the presidential campaign he came across as excessively unemotional.

During a presidential debate the moderator asked him the now-famous question about what would he do if his wife was raped. I groaned and saw the election go down the drain when he treated the question as just another question and answered it with no sign of upset or anger.

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The latest Zogby Poll of 500 Iowans who are registered voters shows the following for January:

Dean- 23%

Gephardt- 17%

Kerry- 11%

I am in Dean's corner since I view him has the new
"McGovern"

Go Dean.

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I remember that Dukakis moment. You could hear the chill in the auditorium. I do think it was a bit more than a lack of passion--though that's how the pundits characterised it. A lot of Americans could see him describing that dispassionate answer to them, after their loved one was raped.

Willie Horton was much more than an unattractive black man, or low-level campaign ploy to most Americans. He was an offender, freed by the liberal, emotionless, out-of-touch Dukakis, who raped again. This Dukakis policy was the teeth that bit, when he gave his answer that night. IMO.

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sofia- The reaction to Dukakas among some of my friends was precisely this:

They felt that he was playing to the wine and cheese crowd, the liberal left wing professors, who say, there is never ever ever any need for violence or righteous anger. We must be for peace--even if our wives are raped.

That was how the mealy mouthed response was viewed by some of my friends.

It is a case of liberal Hubris.

They all want to be like Christ- they turn the other cheek,but none of them believe in Him.

How ironic.

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www.amiserablefailure.com

No mention of Dukakis.

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No surprise at all PDiddie ... if it was fair and accurate, it wouldn't be partisan, now would it? I suspect the "Miserable Failure" chant is gonna haunt the Gepper long after the election. Its a perfect setup for the latenight comics.

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And I suspect it will haunt the Shrub longer, timber.

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Oh, I dunno, Bush the Younger is pretty good at providing the comics with his own setup lines.

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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

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