2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

Quote:

Report: Dean Asks Wesley Clark to Join Campaign
Thu September 11, 2003 01:39 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has asked former NATO commander Wesley Clark to join his campaign if Clark does not run himself and the two have discussed the vice presidency, The Washington Post reported on Thursday.
The former Vermont governor and the retired four-star general met in California over the weekend, the newspaper reported, citing sources familiar with the discussions.

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Call the Guinness Book. This must be the earliest any candidate has ever assumed he should shop for the #2.

Talk about arrogant.

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The Ashkenazim should have fought for their rights in Eastern Europe, and should have organized massive terrorism campaigns against the Nazis when the jig was up, as it were. Six million terrorists and abbetors would not have been wrong. The Jewish Resistance was inspirational, but too little, much too late. Zionism was an obstacle in this respect.

Peoples do quixotic, harrowing things in the name of nationalism.

My apologies for indulging this tangent.

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timberlandko wrote:

You guys really got me on a roll now ... Clark has had my attention for quite a while ... since well prior to Kosovo, in fact.

Here's a bit more fun with Wes

Wow, I was starting to like Clark less and less, but you've just given him a boost again. If those people dislike him, something must be good about him.

The fundamental underlying beef that these people seem to have with Clark is that he dared command - and enthusiastically so - the war against the Serbs over Kosovo. That he was, quote, "the Albanian lobby's fair-haired boy". When, of course, the Serbs had done nothing to provoke such an intervention.

The boost only continued when I clicked through from there to this other article, in which a retired Colonel Jatras slams Clark. You paraphrased him I think - he wrote that "General Clark is the kind of general we saw too often during the Vietnam War and hoped never to see again in a position of responsibility for the lives of our GIs". <Shakes head> ... 's been a while since I last saw such tunnel vision misinformation about Kosovo and Bosnia (not to mention someone who's so full of himself whine so pathetically).

I also think the WW3 claim is mostly rhetorical. Not that I dont think Clark wasnt being stoopid. Thats clear enough - he musta beeen fantasising about leading the GI's in '45, rushing to get to Berlin before the Soviets. If he'd succeeded, he woulda caused a huge chill-down of US-Russian relations. But WW3, seriously?

Still, I don't like Clark or his lobbyers much yet.

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nimh, my chief objection to Clark stems from what I percieve to be his military incompetence ... he's a politician, not a military man committed to the success and welfare of those under his command. Normally, I'd prolly like anybody "those people dislike" too. That he merits such vigorous disapproval from The Left will pose significant challenge to his position in the Democratic party without even considering the opposition from The Right. He brings with him more than enough skelletons to overstock any closet ... and speaking of closets, it will be amusing, from a conservative perspective, when his on-record position re gays, particularly in the military, gets wider exposure. Its almost tempting to conjecture he is a plant foisted on the Democrats by The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy. Mr. Green

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Sofia wrote:

We all hate war. Some of us realize it is sometimes necessary. We didn't acquire our freedom without war, and we havn't maintained our freedom without war.

Would be very nice if it weren't ever necessary. But someone has to keep their head out of the clouds, and keep their eyes on reality.

Everybody enjoys our freedom, but only some are willing to protect and defend it.

A valid sentiment, but, and I emphasize the but, the campign in Iraq has nothing to do with our "freedom." It would seem to be about flexing US muscles in support of American military hegemony. In fact, when one adds the PATRIOT act into the equation, one could easily say that "we" are fighting to end freedom.
BTW: I am also a not so proud member of the "been there, done it" club. Desert Storm, Provide Comfort, Somalia. Sad

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timberlandko wrote:

nimh, my chief objection to Clark stems from what I percieve to be his military incompetence ... he's a politician, not a military man committed to the success and welfare of those under his command.

Yes, yes, yes, yes!!! yesx10^23 (Avogadro's yes!). Clark is the perfect example of teh "ticket puncher" mentality that effected the military in the 70s and beyond. One had to serve for so long in certain positions at company, then battalion, then brigade level, have rotations at the Pentagon, serve in the "right" conflicts, etc... Being an officer (and to a certain extent, this filtered down to the NCO ranks) is now about treading water and trying to sink your felows, in order to stay in. As I said, it has even afflicted the NCO corps. One of the best ways to "shine" as an NCO with little effort on your part, is to initiate chapter (administrative separation) proceedings on as many junior enlisted soldiers under you as possible. Shortly before I left active duty, my 1sgt commented that in my time at Madigan I had never initiated chapter proceedings on anyone, and implied that that indicated that I wasn't "career oriented." My unxerstanding of what being an NCO was about was to "take care of" your soldiers. Not in today's Army!

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Looks like Dean is going to welcome Clark as his running mate. Is that good or bad?

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Directly from the hoss's mouth (the Dean website):

Quote:

Morning News Roundup
The Washington Post reports that Howard Dean and Wesley Clark have spoken to each other:

"Most of our conversations have been around my getting advice on defense, and sometime he asks me about domestic issues," Dean said in an interview yesterday. "This is a guy I like a lot. I think he's certainly going to be on everybody's list if he's not the presidential nominee himself."

Jodi Wilgoren, here in Burlington for the New York Times, gets some clarification from Trippi:

"The governor's told him repeatedly that he should run if he wants," Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said at the campaign headquarters here. "I'm sure that along the way the governor's made clear that we want General Clark's support if he decides not to run for president. I assume every other candidate has done the same thing."

Ron Fournier for the AP also files a report.

And the AP writes that the Service Employees International Union has decided to delay endorsing a Democratic candidate.

This last bit is a blow for Gephardt who thought he could count on the endorsement.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Looks like Dean is going to welcome Clark as his running mate. Is that good or bad?

That all depends on whether or not one thinks the Democrats deserve a chance, IMO. I'm sure the development is heartily wecomed by the RNC.

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Didn't look to me -- on Dean's website -- as though Dean would welcome Clark as his running-mate anytime soon...

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I don't really expect a marriage here ... just a little flirting. The Dean Machine understands the value of Press, and likely sees a great opportunity to garner lots of media attention

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Actually, Timber (and this may be wishful thinking!), Dean's style seems new and direct. I don't picture him being a flirt -- I think he's dedicated to being straight-forward. This may get him in trouble because he isn't scared of changing his mind, rethinking, rephrasing, and (where I most appreciate him) he stays away from that terrible, cliched political rhetoric many of us are so tired of.

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Sofia wrote:

Call the Guinness Book. This must be the earliest any candidate has ever assumed he should shop for the #2.

Talk about arrogant.

Sofia,
Your hostility is showing. Take a few deep breaths and read:

***************************

Dean Asks General to Join Him in Primaries, Aides Say
By JODI WILGOREN NYT

BURLINGTON, Vt., Sept. 10 ?- After months of friendly discussions about national security and other issues, Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, asked Gen. Wesley K. Clark to join his presidential campaign in some capacity if General Clark decided against making the run himself, aides for both men said tonight.

"The governor's told him repeatedly that he should run if he wants," Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said at the campaign headquarters here. "I'm sure that along the way the governor's made clear that we want General Clark's support if he decides not to run for president. I assume every other candidate has done the same thing."

The meeting on Saturday in Los Angeles was first reported tonight by The Washington Post. Mr. Trippi and an aide to General Clark said that they were unsure whether the two men had discussed the vice presidency as The Post reported but that Dr. Dean had not tried to persuade General Clark not to join the fray.

Dr. Dean is often asked whether he would put General Clark on a short list of running mates if he received the nomination. He always says, and Mr. Trippi repeated tonight, that it is far too early to engage in such conversations.

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I would be delighted if Dean chose Clark as his running mate. It would make it all the more likely that Dean would get the nomination. I am convinced that Dean, as the Democratic candidate would be the best thing for the USA.

We need an anti-war candidate like Dean. Yes sir.

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jjorge,

Why should Sofia not show hostility towards Dean? Do you not show hostility toward Bush?

This comment is a comment about neither candidate but rather in the fairness of asking her to calm down when the anti-Bush hostility dwarfs the anti-Dean hostility.

Are not both hostilities just part of the political game?

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Craven de Kere wrote:

jjorge,

Why should Sofia not show hostility towards Dean? Do you not show hostility toward Bush?

I think jjorge's point wasnt so much that Sofia shouldnt feel or express any hostility towards Dean, per se, but rather that she shouldnt let that hostility make her jump to conclusions - i.e. about "a guiness book of records early shopping for #2" when thats not in fact happening yet. According to jjorge. Thats fair enough, I think.

Wholly agree that there's more than enough of the same thing vice versa going on, though. Wouldnt mind more people saying something about that, too.

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I do hope Dean doesnt choose Clark (or v.v.) ...

Thus far, with Dean, I feel he's still the best of the bunch around, at the moment, but i also feel he's not all that ... sympathetic - and if he then teams up with Clark, who feels positively unsympathetic - not good.

But I realise thats not much of a political analysis, there <grins>.

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I would be greatly disappointed if Dean decides on Clark as his running mate. There are others in the pool Dean should consider as VP. I think Clark will become a handicap to his campaign.

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But, nimh, were you not the one who thought "body" was needed?

I gave you some "body" by bringing you up to speed on the situation in Texas where you seemed to be unaware that the Texas Legislature will convene Monday to draw new districting maps which will give Republicans 5 or 6 new seats after November 2, 2004's elections for the House Seats in DC.

I will also add some "body" to your almost meaningless post where you "grin"

Zogby Poll- Sept. 8th and 9th

of 500 likely Iowa voters who will vote for their Democratic choice in the primaries in January 2004( not long from now.

Votes below:

Dean - 23%

Gephardt- 17%

Kerry- 11%

Now, where is your "body"?????????????????

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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

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