@Frank Apisa,
I highly doubt Rice is reading this. And to be honest I would not care what he wrote as I would not value his opinion.
You make no sense.
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:Actually, I make lots of sense.
I don 't imagine that (in any way) relates to
"
self-congratulation on your part", right, Frank ?
@Frank Apisa,
It wasn't self-congrats -- it was in response to what would you do --- so instead of saying oh I wouldn't punch or I wouldn't do this or that - I gave a real life example of what I did do in that situation.
If you knew what city I grew up in you wouldn't even say anything that you have. But to me it doesn't matter where you grew up -- you cause a crime you get punished. I know plenty of kids that grew up under the worst of circumstances and they never hit a woman and caused any sort of problems.
It makes no sense that you keep giving this violent person excuses for his actions. He is a grown man acting inappropriately - there is no excuse for his behavior.
Sidebar can everyone tell me what state and city ya'll are from, because from my POV on a geographical perspective that is why my views are grossly different than everyones here.
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:I suspect (I do not know, but suspect) that you may have been raised in settings and expectations that are different from what Rice (and his wife) may well have experienced.
Out of curiousity I did look up where he grew up -- New Rochelle, NY and went to New Rochelle High School. Did you know that this high school is known for ranking highly in SAT test scores for Westchester County. That 96% of graduates attend college or other institutions of higher learning. NRHS students earn accolades in competitive national programs including the National Merit Scholarship programs and the Intel Science Talent Search.
New Rochelle has been ranked in the top 2% of high schools in the nation by Newsweek since 2000—it is also one of the most diverse high schools in the country; its student body represents 60 countries from around the world. NRHS is a two-time Blue Ribbon School, the highest honor that an American school can achieve. NRHS is accredited by the Middle States Association Commission on Secondary Schools.
Also that New Rochelle, NY, in November 2008 Business Week magazine listed New Rochelle as the best city in New York State, and one of the best places nationally, to raise children.
And by the way did you know where I attended High School...In 1999 75% of its students failed Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System (MCAS) mathematics examinations and 44% failed MCAS English examinations. Around that period, about 1/3 of students of each Brockton class dropped out. By 2001 student performance improved. Between 2000 and 2001, more students went from failing to passing at Brockton High than at any other school in Massachusetts. So we did improve a bit.
I won't go into the details of how my city where I grew up fares as being a best city to raise children - as it doesn't rate.
So who do you think should more likely fly off the handle? Someone raised in a town that is one of the best to raise children vs. one that is crime ridden (not granted it wasn't as bad when I was a child, but it wasn't still one of the best places to raise a child) -- going to a high school where the majority attend college with very high tests scores? Or one in which the kids are lucky to graduation?
So yes you are correct I did grow up in a situation vastly different than our Mr. Rice. I guess perhaps you assumed because of his color and violent streak that he grew up in a slightly different situation.
No, Ray Rice punched a woman twice, then dragged her out like a rag doll, as to give us the indication that he did not have zero sympathy for her.
The public has no say on professional decisions, for unprofessional decisions have no connection with professional decisions. By "professional", I just mean the loose meaning of the word. There's a difference between basing decisions off of emotion and basing decisions off of an establishment that is your life's work. By "life's work", I am again using these words loosely, as I do not condone our species using only the left side of the brain.
@Frank Apisa,
I like the way you try to "extend" a point by making it enter the realm of the ridiculous. I, for one, don't think Rice should rot in hell , he should just not be reqrded for his Neanderthal and felonious actions to another human who just happens to be his wife.
Spousal laws protect these kinds of interactions nd assults and often wives defend their abusers for several reason byond the scope of this discussion. Rice shoul (qs he has) been given a directive from the NFL that he has no "license" to commit felonies against another person while off the field. I see no difference between a highly trained and skilled and pumped NFL "warrior" and a professional ranked boxer. The laws of conduct govern boxers out of the ring and these guys can be sentenced for using their ring skills to beat up people on the street.
The question should really be, IMHO, whether a "lifetime fooball ban " as a cruel and unusual punishment may be too excessive, especially since Rice is coming up on the end of his NFL career life. Mike Vick came back and has kept his nose clean but has just faded into obscurity warming the Jets benches (mostly based on his age I believe) He started briefly against the Eagles in the pre season but didn't look too good.
Killing dogs or beating up people, both are felonies and deserve punishments that inconveniently interrupt career plans. Making excuses for a "circus performer" to allow him to continue being a felon jut because hes a popular juggler , I find, is a most disturbing thing about the human mind. Fascinting, but still disturbing
@Frank Apisa,
being in the public eye has different privileges and responsibilities. I think you can appreciate that.
What if his wife was permanently injured , should he then get consideration for a "pass" on his actions just because he feeds our entertainment bill on any given Sunday in the Fall?
Coming late to the discussion and I don't have time to read all the prior comments, so forgive me if I'm duplicating any (I probably am so consider these "reinforcement')
The video was disgusting, but it was also astounding. I can't even imagine hauling off and socking a woman in the face, but even if my life was on the line I think I would at least hesitate. However Rice doesn't miss a beat. She provokes and he floors her. He doesn’t grab and shake her, he doesn’t push her away; he doesn’t even slap her in the face. He delivers a short, compact knock-out blow that would do a prize-fighter proud. I guess the voices and influences that taught me that violence was to be used very sparingly and only in defense, and to never, ever hit a women, were either not present in Rice's life, or his being a hot **** athlete flushed their lessons all away. It really doesn't matter, because I'm not accepting excuses for that behavior, no matter what his upbringing was like.
That he wasn't prosecuted for what is clearly a crime is either an example of famous athlete’s privilege or a screwed up local criminal justice system. Punching someone in the face and knocking them out cold is assault, plain and simple.
I don’t particularly what the NFL or the Ravens do to him, but I don't have a problem with them doing anything, including banning him for life. They are part of the entertainment industry and as such they depend heavily on public opinion. He made a lot of money in that industry and knew, or should have known, that he was in the public eye - on the field and off. That's part of the job. Very few of these players have a problem with their fame when it gets them the best table in a restaurant or meals and drinks on the house. There's a downside to fame, but it comes with the good side. If the public didn't care about the NFL or the men who play the game, this incident wouldn't have made the papers, but then Rice also would not have made millions.
The NFL mishandled this up from the start, but their real failing has been to let this sort of crap go on for years. Players have to shoot someone (or themselves - Plaxico Burress) AND it has to make the headlines before they get disciplined. They have to be caught doing dope in wild orgies or carrying a ton of it in their car AND it has to make the headlines before they are disciplined. I'm sure there is an official NFL Standards of Player Conduct document and I'm also sure it's been a joke for a long time.
The days of players having curfews and having to wear suits on travel days, I'm sure, seem ridiculously old-fashioned to not only the players, but to the fans, just like so many forms of behavioral traditions in society in general. Old farts complain about the erosion of etiquette and the coarsening of public entertainment and interaction, but they're just old farts, and all old farts think things were better in their day. Things change and you gotta get with it old man.
For the most part though, traditional rules of behavior have served good purposes and eliminating a lot of them may have "liberated" us from antiquated mores and constraints, but there's a price to pay, and based on the furor over the Rice incident it may be that people are sensing, if not realizing, that the price may be too great.
The people I've talked to about the video have focused not simply on the violence of Rice's action, but how natural it seemed to him and how nonchalant he acted when his girlfriend was laying on the floor out cold. You don't see anything from Rice that can be interpreted as remorse, or even concern for the woman he is supposed to be in love with and could easily have been in a critical condition. He just stands there and tugs her feet away from the door.
And Rice isn't an isolated incident.
That Rice is possibly being banned for life and Michael Vick got a second chance does seem unequitable, but tough on Rice.
Some may feel for the players who are now finding out that the rules have changed overnight, and what used to no big deal is now a possible reason for losing their livelihoods, but to that I also say TOUGH. Fear of losing your job shouldn’t be what’s necessary to keep you from slugging women, abusing children, or otherwise behaving like a thug. Certainly they are all smart enough to know that just because they could get away with it didn’t make it OK.
What also disgusts me, almost as much as Rice’s actions, are the number of pundits and sports “journalists” (ha!) who have decided now is the time to lecture us about spousal or child abuse. This hasn’t been a hidden problem for years. We didn’t need to see Rice punch his girlfriend to know that this sort of things goes on in more prosaic environs. We sure didn’t need to see it to know that it’s wrong. These sanctimonious sermons should be saved for where they possibly may do some good, the HS, College, and Professional Sports locker-rooms where the people who somehow missed the lessons they should have received growing, up spend their time.
.
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:The NFL mishandled this up from the start, but their real failing has been to let this sort of crap go on for years
How often have you fired employees for off the job behavior? I would not consider it unless the crime was a felony, and till there was a conviction.
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:The NFL mishandled this up from the start, but their real failing has been to let this sort of crap go on for years
How often have you fired employees for off the job behavior? I would not consider it unless the crime was a felony, and till there was a conviction.
Because, it's unlikely that punching a woman out cold sells products.
@Germlat,
Quote:Because, it's unlikely that punching a woman out cold sells products.
that is the same rationalization that was long used to force teachers into agreeing to not marry and to also to be paragons of virtue. We now consider that to be backwards and an unfair deprivation of individual rights.
Explain to me why this is different.
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:Because, it's unlikely that punching a woman out cold sells products.
that is the same rationalization that was long used to force teachers into agreeing to not marry and to also to be paragons of virtue. We now consider that to be backwards and an unfair deprivation of individual rights.
Explain to me why this is different.
So he makes millions of dollars and I should respect his right to punch a female out cold...I think a teacher deserves millions, not an entertainer. It's not what I think or my opinion, it's the fact that he made himself distasteful to the public. He lives off the public...so. It's his lack of self-control that did him in. If a female model is captured on video snorting coke, she will more than likely lose her contracts. I don't feel sorry for him. I bet it wasn't his first time ( just a hunch).
