Sneaking suspicion: could it be that most of the american people are intolerant?
Well, intolerant of what exactly? Religious zealots? Homosexuality? Republicans?
skyhigh---
I am not on the whole ashamed to be an american. If I was I would have said something in my post like "this is only one of the many things I hate about being an american. America sucks!" But I didn't. I said that for this reason (gay marriage being opposed) I am ashamed of us. I know verrrrrry well that I have it good here. Most of the time I feel safe and happy knowing that I have the right to vote, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the list goes on. I love america.
But that does not mean that I don't have the right to speak out against injustices. Where there is freedom, there is always someone waiting to take it away from you. Always. You have to be on your toes noticing this stuff. And speak your mind when you think things have become unfair. It may not do anything, but, at least you let it be known what your opinion is.
When the nazis took over Germany it was a terrible time in history. I'm sorry if this reference offended you, but all I meant by using it was that the nazis were very into discrimination too (obviously) and tried to tell others what they could and could not do with their lives. The scale here is off, but the basic theme is the same. No, america is not going to turn into nazi Germany over this. I was not implying that.
Why do most people oppose gay marriage? Because most people are small. My wife saw on TV the other night film of a gay marriage. One of the male couple wore a wedding gown and the other a tuxedo. She exclaimed "How sweet." Then with anger she asked "Why can't people leave them alone to find their happiness as they can?" I felt proud.
Re: Why do most Americans oppose gay marriage?
Jora-
Forgive me but I fail to see how one who is made ashamed of America (because of certain peoples opinions), can immediately after say "I love America."
Perhaps you simply went too far to say you are ashamed of America itself. Maybe you are ashamed of what many people in America believe on a subject. A few small changes in a phrase makes a big difference there. In that case, join the club; and in that case, I am glad to know you feel that way (even if we differ in opinions.) I just hope you are willing to do something about the way you feel
Why do most Americans oppose gay marriage? Well, don't underestimate the organizational and convincing capabilities of various religious institutions. Here in Mass., a month or 2 ago, I received a wholly unsolicited call (recorded voice) telling me to go to the State House on such-and-such a day to protest gay marriage, as it was "bad for marriage and harmful to children and against God's will". I laughed, hung up the phone, tried to get it back on *69 (couldn't, it was blocked) and then tried to block it on the Do Not Call List, and learned that, since the number and name of the organization that had sent the call could not be conclusively established, I wouldn't be able to block said call. Interesting that this extremely "important" call to action was made by people who didn't have the guts to identify themselves.
Okay, let's review their points, shall we?
1) it's bad for marriage - sez who? You'd think that fewer single people running around, and more people in committed relationships, would be GOOD for marriage. After all, there would presumably be fewer people interested in recreational sex, and more of an air of commitment in the state. This is a good argument if one's marriage isn't so strong.
Plus, who the hell cares what other people are doing if one's marriage is strong? After all, there are any number of good-looking people all over this state and within driving distance, but I don't cheat because I love my husband. So if they are married, or not, or gay, or not, is immaterial. My marriage's happiness begins at home.
2) harmful to children - how? By allowing marriages where children will not be born? What a laugh! My marriage has no children (by choice). Are we any less married than my brother and his wife, who have a son? What about single parents? Aren't they perhaps (by this reasoning; I don't believe this for a moment) more of a threat to marriage? After all, if it's acceptable to have children out of wedlock, wouldn't that undermine one of the reasons for getting married? Oops, it's already acceptable for kids to be born out of wedlock, so this argument doesn't hold water.
Also, what about gay couples with kids, either born to one of them, or via surrogacy, or gained through adoption? All of these methods of having children are perfectly legal, and it's been ruled to be discriminatory to consider the parent's sexuality in matters of custody (the best interests of the child are the primary means for considering custody issues). What about gays who had children in earlier, heterosexual marriages? And what about offspring who are over 18? Aren't they able to make their own choices regarding sexuality? Isn't the state stepping in to ostensibly "protect" these children more than a little heavy-handed and unnecessary?
3) against God's will - sez who? I read a different prayer book than most of the people in my state, and I fully expect that my friends from my last job read another, and my neighbors read yet another and you get the point. The bottom line is, who's to say what God's will is? Whose interpretation is perfectly correct? Wasn't it allegedly God's will that we have slavery in this country? Wasn't it supposedly God's will that we not allow interracial marriages here? Wasn't it said to be God's will that we not give women the right to vote? And what about separation of church and state? Why should our ideas of what's legal and not legal be dictated at all by what is written in anyone's prayer book?
It's about money, of course. It's about denying certain people tax benefits and social security and spousal work benefits. The rest of it is just window-dressing, but it's inflammatory and clearly being used to stoke the fires of people's prejudices. So many other prejudices are now suppressed; unfortunately, homophobia is still one of the last bastions of hate in this country, and any number of religious organizations are equating homophobia with piety, and tolerance with godlessness. It's sad, really, that so many people still believe it's perfectly okay to deny others dental coverage, the ability to file their taxes jointly, and a widow's (or widower's) benefit when the person they love dies. And it's sadder still that so many people swallow the idea, hook, line and sinker, that by doing so they are somehow becoming instruments of God's will.
To me, america and it's people are one and the same. When I say that I am ashamed of america, I am talking about some of it's people. You're right, I should have said that I was ashamed of some things. And I can say with confidence right after saying something like this that I love america because, well, let's face it: everything has problems connected to it. But that doesn't mean on the whole we can't love certain things despite these problems (I say "certain" here because don't ask me to love horrible things like murderers). On the whole is the key phrase here. Kind of like with family members. You have some that have certain traits that just drive you crazy at times, but does that mean you love them any less? No. America is like a family member, if you will, that has a few traits that I cannot stand, but is mostly a decent person. Again, just because I love it, does not mean I can't rag on it for some things. Without the right to do that, how would anything ever change? And some things really do need to change.
It's hard on discussion boards to clarify exactly what you mean sometimes. You don't have the benefit of hearing someone's tone of voice, and knowing their basic character. So, I understand if what I said was confusing. I hope this clears it up a bit. If you'd like me to explain something further I can.
I loved the part of that message where the guy angrily said (I'm paraphrasing), "...what about OUR civil rights being violated?" What? Huh? How?
Quote:It's hard on discussion boards to clarify exactly what you mean sometimes. You don't have the benefit of hearing someone's tone of voice, and knowing their basic character.
Very true, it is easy to see what somebody writes and judge them immediately by it, and it may or may not be a right judgement. No doubt I have made that mistake, forgive me if I did so with you. Although, I think we still disagree in some regards, I guess it is a good thing we are not living in Naz-- oh, well, you know what I am thinking!
So, I do get the idea of what you have said, and since I did not come here to persuade people to my value system, I think I will leave it as that. Thanks for taking the time to respond
Why do most Americans oppose gay marriage?
Homophobic, believe it is a catchable disease....
While you may not realize it or admit it, the logic behind that type of statement is, "I am not against gay marriage. Therefor, anyone who IS, is less intelligent than me. Therefor their only possible reasons must be absurdly stupid ones, like..."
It's ridiculous, really. You don't believe that any rational people could disagree with you.
(You know, I just realized...)
"I've loved this man for a long,
long, time."
Some folks don't "oppose" it necessarily. Perhaps they just don't like folks telling them how they have to believe either?
I personally don't care.
If you were to interview me and the question was; "Do you believe a man should or could marry a man?"
Well, I'd say hell no!
That is not something about America to be ashamed of either. That is a Freedom that was blood bought.
Am I going to take up a sign and march? HEEEEEELLLLLL NO!
Leave me alone. Don't tell me I HAVE to sign off on what Homos do, respect my right not to care to be bothered about it and all will be cool.
actually, you sound like you already are pretty bothered by it.
