40
   

The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie

 
 
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:24 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:

How do you determine who a "nut" is? Unless it is written on their faces or they tell you, you can't tell who is "crazy".


It is not so easy to guess who will go on a killing spree; however, laws should be in place so that guns should be easier to obtain. In the case of Adam Lanza, his mother must share in the blame. She refused to see there was something horribly wrong with her son.... a loner without an outlet to release his raging hormones. There were signs in several of the killers as well but they slipped through the system. The background checks before selling guns should be revised, taking a month or more to do a thorough check. Why on earth would anyone need to carry a gun to Church? Isn't one's god supposed to protect them in that sanctuary? There was one Republican advocating for guns in school. America has gone over the edge!
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:35 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
It is not so easy to guess who will go on a killing spree; however, laws should be in place so that guns should be easier to obtain. In the case of Adam Lanza, his mother must share in the blame.


She does share some of the blame, she's dead at the hands of her son.

Quote:
Why on earth would anyone need to carry a gun to Church? Isn't one's god supposed to protect them in that sanctuary? There was one Republican advocating for guns in school. America has gone over the edge!


You already mentioned the church shooting in Charelston... Wasn't there an abortion doctor who was also killed in church.

Then there was this one:


Guns in school? Sure, train the admin staff or teachers in the proper techniques of self defense and schools shootings will become a thing of the past once the crazies realize they no longer have a target rich environment with "gun free zones".
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:40 pm
@Baldimo,
<Adam Lanza didn't purchase any guns, he killed his mother and took hers. James Holmes wasn't reported as being crazy and no gun laws would have prevented him from getting the guns he used. >

Still, Lanza was an oddball type. A loner, a strange kid and everyone who knew him thought this. His mother was the chief culprit, keeping a room full of guns, all types, and she was the first one this nut killed!

Quote:
All of this was known after the fact, but how would you have prevented him from getting the guns in the first place?


With such a strange kid [Adam Lanza], partly autistic, the mother should not have taken any chances whatsoever! People, like Lanza, who live in their own world should be watched closely because one doesn't really know what they're capable of. Sadly, his mother will never know she was nursing a killer within the home.


As for Mr. James Holmes: He had seen psychiatrists many times:

"Mr. Holmes had seen a psychiatrist at the University of Colorado Denver before the shootings, and she had warned the campus police that Mr. Holmes had threatened her and had made homicidal statements. Weeks before his rampage, Mr. Holmes also sent a text message to a classmate asking about “manic dysphoria” — a psychiatric condition that combines the symptoms of mania and depression — and warning her to stay away from him because he was “bad news.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/us/james-holmes-aurora-shooting-suspect-enters-insanity-plea.html?_r=0
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:52 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:

What laws have been proposed that would stop these shootings?


How can one prevent senseless shootings unless our health care facilities is overhauled. Parents will have to be more observant of their children and not be in denial. Schools must report any abnormalities among teenagers. There are so many warning signs we should be made aware of. Americans have tried to push through a bill that would restrict guns, but they are always shot down by Republicans beholden to the gun lobby. No laws will be allowed to pass restricting the sale of guns until we get rid of the gun lobby. Americans are doomed to sit back and watch while guns wind up in the ruthless and careless hands of fanatics.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:56 pm
@korkamann,
Did you not watch any of the trial for James Holmes? The jury didn't fall for his crazy story and found him guilty on all counts.

Do we start active surveillance of those who could be crazy? The only other way to pull this off would be to have the Dr's and therapists report on their sessions to the local or federal authorities. Unless someone has given a specific threat, people like James Holmes are protected by Dr/patient privilege.

What is the threshold for someone to be reported? Does seeing a mental health expert automatically disqualify someone from having a gun?
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:56 pm
@korkamann,
Opps! Grammatical error in typing.

".... laws should be in place so that guns should be easier to obtain."

Should read: "...laws should be in place so that guns should NOT be easier to obtain."
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 03:59 pm
@Baldimo,
Mr. Baldino, I am tired of discussing this subject now. I have to prepare dinner. Please, go to it with another poster.

Thanks for the back-n-forth.
Ciao
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 04:04 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
No laws will be allowed to pass restricting the sale of guns until we get rid of the gun lobby. Americans are doomed to sit back and watch while guns wind up in the ruthless and careless hands of fanatics.


Guns are already on sales restrictions. This is why I ask what laws would have to be passed. A mental health restriction might help. How many times have we heard stories like "They were just a normal person."

These types of shootings are only in the minority of gun deaths. How do mental health laws stop the majority of shooting deaths? The problem isn't guns, it's the people who use them. 300,000,000 guns in the US, 100,000,00 owners of said guns. That is about a 3rd of the population that is a gun owner. How do you balance the majority owner with restrictions against those who do not commit crimes?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 04:06 pm
@korkamann,
At least you have been civil, thank you for that! We can continue at a later time.
0 Replies
 
billrandall
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 06:07 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
u are very ignorant of the fact. Mike brown was TWICE the clerks' size and when the clerk tried to stop Brown's exit with the cigars, brown picked him up by the throat. the clerk then had EVERY right to shoot him DEAD. that is what is called "disparity of force", and it's the same thing as if brown had a weapon. He was committing a violent, potentially deadly attack and lethal force would have been quite justified.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 08:30 pm
@Baldimo,
Abortion and crime: who should you believe?

Steven D. Levitt
05/15/2005 | 11:44 am
Print

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/


Two very vocal critics, Steve Sailer and John Lott, have been exerting a lot of energy lately trying to convince the world that the abortion reduces crime hypothesis is not correct. A number of readers have asked me to respond to these criticisms. First, let’s start by reviewing the basic facts that support the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis that legalized abortion in the 1970s explains a substantial part of the crime decline in the 1990s:

1) Five states legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade. Crime started falling three years earlier in these states, with property crime (done by younger people) falling before violent crime.

2) After abortion was legalized, the availability of abortions differed dramatically across states. In some states like North Dakota and in parts of the deep South, it was virtually impossible to get an abortion even after Roe v. Wade. If one compares states that had high abortion rates in the mid 1970s to states that had low abortion rates in the mid 1970s, you see the following patterns with crime. For the period from 1973-1988, the two sets of states (high abortion states and low abortion states) have nearly identical crime patterns. Note, that this is a period before the generations exposed to legalized abortion are old enough to do much crime. So this is exactly what the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts. But from the period 1985-1997, when the post Roe cohort is reaching peak crime ages, the high abortion states see a decline in crime of 30% relative to the low abortion states. Our original data ended in 1997. If one updated the study, the results would be similar.)

3) All of the decline in crime from 1985-1997 experienced by high abortion states relative to low abortion states is concentrated among the age groups born after Roe v. Wade. For people born before abortion legalization, there is no difference in the crime patterns for high abortion and low abortion states, just as the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts.

4) When we compare arrest rates of people born in the same state, just before and just after abortion legalization, we once again see the identical pattern of lower arrest rates for those born after legalization than before.

5) The evidence from Canada, Australia, and Romania also support the hypothesis that abortion reduces crime.

6) Studies have shown a reduction in infanticide, teen age drug use, and teen age childbearing consistent with the theory that abortion will reduce other social ills similar to crime.

These six points all support the hypothesis. There is one fact that, without more careful analysis, argues against the Donohue-Levitt story:

7) The homicide rate of young males (especially young Black males) temporarily skyrocketed in the late 1980s, especially in urban centers like Los Angeles, New York City, and Washington, DC, before returning to regular levels soon thereafter. These young males who were hitting their peak crime years were born right around the time abortion was legalized.

If you look at the serious criticisms that have been leveled against the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis, virtually all of them revolve around this spike in homicide by young men in the late 1980s-early 1990s. (There are also some non-serious criticisms, which I will address below.) This is the point that Sailer is making, and also the point made far more rigorously by Ted Joyce in an article published in the Journal of Human Resources.

So, a reasonable thing to ask yourself is: Was there anything else going on in the late 1980s that might be causing young Black males to be killing each other at alarming rates that might be swamping the impact of legalized abortion over a short time period? The obvious culprit you might think about is crack cocaine. Crack cocaine was hitting the inner cities at exactly this time, disproportionately affecting minorities, and the violence was heavily concentrated among young Black males such as the gang members we write about in Freakonomics. So to figure out whether this spike in young Black male homicides is evidence against legalized abortion reducing crime, or even evidence legalized abortion causes crime, one needs to control for the crack epidemic to find the answer. This is the argument that I have been making for years. First in the Slate exchange with Steve Sailer back in 1999, then in the Donohue and Levitt response to Ted Joyce, and now in a recent paper by Roland Fryer, Paul Heaton, me, and Kevin Murphy.

The key points I mentioned in Slate five years ago in debating Sailer are reprinted below:

Your hypothesis that crack, not abortion, is the story, provides a testable alternative to our explanation of the facts. You argue:

The arrival of crack led to large increases in crime rates between 1985 and the early ’90s, particularly for inner-city African-American youths. The fall of the crack epidemic left many of the bad apples of this cohort dead, imprisoned, or scared straight. Consequently, not only did crime fall back to its original pre-crack level, but actually dropped even further in a “overshoot” effect.
States that had high abortion rates in the ’70s were hit harder by the crack epidemic, thus any link between falling crime in the ’90s and abortion rates in the ’70s is spurious.

If either assumption 1 or 2 is true, then the crack epidemic can explain some of the rise and fall in crime in the ’80s and ’90s. In order for your crack hypothesis to undermine the “abortion reduces crime” theory, however, all three assumptions must hold true.

So, let’s look at the assumptions one by one and see how they fare.

1)Did the arrival of crack lead to rising youth crime? Yes. No argument from me here.

2) Did the decline in crack lead to a “boomerang” effect in which crime actually fell by more than it had risen with the arrival of crack? Unfortunately for your story, the empirical evidence overwhelmingly rejects this claim. Using specifications similar to those in our paper, we find that the states with the biggest increases in murder over the rising crack years (1985-91) did see murder rates fall faster between 1991 and 1997. But for every 10 percent that murder rose between 1985 and 1991, it fell by only 2.6 percent between 1991 and 1997. For your story to explain the decline in crime that we attribute to legalized abortion, this estimate would have to be about five times bigger. Moreover, for violent crime and property crime, increases in these crimes over the period 1985-91 are actually associated with increases in the period 1991-97 as well. In other words, for crimes other than murder, the impact of crack is not even in the right direction for your story.

3) Were high-abortion-rate states in the ’70s hit harder by the crack epidemic in the ’90s? Given the preceding paragraph, this is a moot point, because all three assumptions must be true to undermine the abortion story, but let’s look anyway. A reasonable proxy for how hard the crack epidemic hit a state is the rise in crime in that state over the period 1985-91. Your theory requires a large positive correlation between abortion rates in a state in the ’70s and the rise in crime in that state between 1985 and 1991. In fact the actual correlations, depending on the crime category, range between -.32 and +.09 Thus, the claim that high-abortion states are the same states that were hit hardest by crack is not true empirically. While some states with high abortion rates did have a lot of crack (e.g., New York and D.C.), Vermont, Kansas, Hawaii, Massachusetts, and Washington were among the 10 states with the highest abortion rates in the ’70s. These were not exactly the epicenters of the crack epidemic.

So, what is the final tally? Two of the key assumptions underlying your alternative hypothesis appear to be false: The retreat of crack has not led to an “overshoot” in crime, causing it to be lower than 1985, and even if it had, the states with high abortion rates in the ’70s do not appear to be affected particularly strongly by the crack epidemic. Moreover, when we re-run our analysis controlling for both changes in crime rates from 1985 to 1991 and the level of crime in 1991, the abortion variable comes in just as strongly as in our original analysis.

Re-reading this response five years later, it still sounds pretty good to me. Interestingly, at the time, Sailer refused to respond directly to my arguments. His response in Slate completely side-stepped the fact that I had destroyed his core argument. He wrote, for instance, “…rather than mud wrestle in numbers here, I’ll privately send you my technical suggestions. In this essay I’ll step back and explain why this straightforward insight [that abortion reduces crime] might not work in practice.” I should note that I am still waiting for those technical suggestions he promised to arrive!! And if you compare his Slate arguments to his “new” article in the American Conservative, you will see that his thinking has not progressed very far on the issue. In contrast, I spent two years working on that paper on crack cocaine, which provides hard, quantitative evidence in favor of those earlier conjectures I had made.

Now let’s talk about John Lott for a minute. Along with John Whitley, he wrote a paper on abortion and crime. It is so loaded with inaccurate claims, errors and statistical mistakes that I hate to even provide a link to it, but for the sake of completeness you can find it here. Virtually nothing in this paper is correct, and it is no coincidence that four years later it remains unpublished. In a letter to the editor at Wall Street Journal, Lott claims that our results are driven by the particular measure of abortions that we used in the first paper. I guess he never bothered to read our response to Joyce in which we show in Table 1 that the results are nearly identical when we use his preferred data source. It is understandable that he could make this argument five years ago, but why would he persist in making it in 2005 when it has been definitively shown to be false? (I’ll let you put on your Freakonomics-thinking-hat and figure out the answer to that last question.) As Lott and Whitley are by now well aware, the statistical results they get in that paper are an artifact of some bizarre choices they made and any reasonable treatment of the data returns our initial results. (Even Ted Joyce, our critic, acknowledges that the basic patterns in the data we report are there, which Lott and Whitley were trying to challenge.)

To anyone who actually made it this far, I applaud you for your patience. Let me simply end with an analogy. Let’s say that we are living in a world in which global warming is taking place, but also a world in which El Nino occasionally leads to radical, short run disruptions in normal weather patterns. You wouldn’t argue that global warming is false because for a year or two we had cold winters. You’d want to figure out what effect El Nino has on winter weather and then see whether controlling for El Nino it looks like global warming is taking place. The impact of legalized abortion on crime is a lot like global warming — it is slow and steady and grows a little year by year. Crack is like El Nino, it comes in with a fury and then largely disappears. That is why I have invested so much time and effort in understanding both abortion and crack, and why the criticisms made against the abortion-reduces-crime hypothesis to date have not been very compelling.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 08:53 pm

Dashcam Video Released of Unarmed College Football Player Being Shot 10 Times in the Back by Police

Officer Randall Kerrick fired 12 shots at Ferrell, 10 of which hit him, all of them went into his back.
By Mike Sawyer / The Free Thought Project
August 7, 2015



Charlotte, NC — In September of 2013, Jonathan Ferrell was in a state of distress after crashing his car and attempted to get help by knocking on a woman’s door in the middle of the night. The woman became frightened, so she shut her door and called the police.

When officers responded to the scene, they saw the former Florida A&M football player walking down the street, in an alleged “zombie state.”

As Ferrell attempted to run from police, one of the officers, Randall Kerrick opened fire, unleashing a fury of bullets into the back of this unarmed man.

Kerrick fired 12 shots at Ferrell, 10 of which hit him, all of them went into his back.

Kerrick was arrested and charged with voluntary manslaughter and his trial began this week. During the trial on Tuesday, the dashcam footage from officer Adam Neal’s patrol vehicle was shown publicly as that officer took the stand.

Neal testified that Ferrell looked like he was “amped up” and was in a “zombie state” just before Kerrick pulled out his gun, according to the NY Daily News.

Prosecutors claim that Kerrick overreacted when he shot Ferrell nearly a dozen times in his back, and the city of Charlotte agreed. Last year, after shelling out $21,000 in taxpayer dollars to defend Kerrick, the city eventually quit paying to defend this killer cop.

Earlier this year, the family of Ferrell was awarded $2.25 million in damages for their son’s death, despite Kerrick claiming that Ferrell “went for his gun.”

No other officer on the scene felt that Ferrell was a threat as none of them pulled out so much as a baton. Officer Neal testified that he didn’t pull out his gun, taser, or baton because he planned to wrestle the young man. However, Kerrick would not allow it.

The dashcam videos from two other patrol cars are expected to be released this week as well.

Kerrick faces up to 11 years if he is convicted.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 01:56 am
@Baldimo,
Why would I know what laws you pass. I live in a country with sane laws where children are protected from people like you.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 08:37 am
@izzythepush,
Protected from people like me? Sorry Izzy but I'm not a violent person your rhetoric is a bit much don't you think? What makes you think I'm violent and what laws has your country passed to protect you from me?
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 09:29 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

What makes you think I'm violent and what laws has your country passed to protect you from me?


Your contempt for people worse off than you coupled with your need to own a firearm.

I honestly don't think you're fit to own a gun.

That's just how I see it.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 09:42 am
@izzythepush,
My contempt? What contempt? You are going to have to be more specific on this. My need to own a firearm?

revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 10:11 am
Heavily armed "Oath Keepers" inject new unease to riot-hit Ferguson

Quote:
FERGUSON, Mo., Aug 11 (Reuters) - Four civilians carrying military-style rifles and sidearms patrolled a riot-torn street in Ferguson, Missouri, early Tuesday, saying they were there to protect a media organization but drawing swift criticism from police and protesters alike.

The appearance of the four men, all white, quickly drew stares in the mostly black neighborhood, which exploded into violence again on Sunday night as protesters marked the police killing of an unarmed black teen a year ago.

The men identified themselves as part of a group called "Oath Keepers," which describes itself as an association of current and former U.S. soldiers and police who aim to protect the U.S. Constitution.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit civil rights organization, has described the "Oath Keepers" as a "fiercely anti-government, militaristic group," and St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar condemned their appearance in Ferguson.

"Their presence was both unnecessary and inflammatory," he said, adding that police would work with county prosecutors to see if the men had broken any laws.

Led by a man who gave his name only as John, the group, whose members wore bulletproof vests and carried sidearms in addition to combat-style rifles, said they had come to protect a journalist from the conservative "Infowars.com" Web site.

"There were problems here, there were people who got hurt. We needed to be prepared for that," said the man, who noted that Missouri state laws generally allow the open carrying of heavy weapons of the kind that his group were brandishing.

InfoWars could not be reached for immediate comment.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 10:32 am
@revelette2,
Gee, no prejudice judgments in this article. "military-style" rifles. Calling AR's heavy weapons... What a piece of bias journalism.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 11:12 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
What a piece of bias journalism.
Why? Did you ever read the definitions of weapons?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2015 11:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I was in the military. An AR style rifle, btw the AR is short for Armalite which is the company that created the first m-16's and were first marketed towards civilians, is not considered a heavy weapon. The "weight" of the weapon usually refers to the caliber of the ammo a weapon fires. 5.56mm which is the same round as the .223, is a common hunting round, with a slight difference in how the top of the casing is designed. The same can be said for the 7.62mm round which is a shorter version of the .308 hunting round is also considered a light weapon or small arms.

So yes, this is a piece of bias journalism since they are using the wrong terms, on purpose, for these weapons in order to make them sounds scary and color the people who have them as some sort of threat.
 

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