But - I shall put away childish things - for now.
You are correct, Dlowan. Constant smart attacks. I must say that I have never encountered anyone who has as many constant smart attacks as you do.
I must be careful or I will be subjected to your constant smart attacks. That would be hysterical.
Quote:Hysterical.
[From Latin hystericus, hysterical, from Greek husterikos, from husterā, womb (from the former idea that disturbances in the womb caused hysteria).]
now that would be a hoot!
Perhaps it would be sensible for producers of dictionaries and encyclopedias to design new definitions for the saying "full and unconditional national sovereignty", in recognition of the following recent exclusions, as determined by our leaders?
Excluding:
selection of the candidates for government;
control of armed forces;
training and control of police;
control of prisons;
control of mineral wealth;
control of national revenue;
control of major employers;
control of building and rebuilding;
control of rights to compensation.
The uncharitable might offer "meaningless" or semi-dictatorship" as possible contenders.
The most important question of all is "Would the proponents accept these restrictions upon their own national sovereignties?"
Arch, Good points all. I wonder how many in the coalition really understand what they are doing?
Iraqi Government Takes Shape But Powers Unclear
2 hours, 4 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Alastair Macdonald
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq (news - web sites)'s new government is taking shape, with U.S. officials leaking names of a prime minister and president, but confusion remained Wednesday over what power, if any, they would have over a vast U.S. army in the country.
Five weeks before the interim government is due to take over from the U.S. occupation authority on June 30, U.S. officials said the prime minister would be Hussain Shahristani.
Shahristani, a Shi'ite Muslim nuclear scientist who paid for his defiance of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) with torture, prison and exile, told Reuters he did not want the job but was ready to shoulder the responsibility of steering Iraq to elections.
There was no let up in violence, which President Bush (news - web sites) has said may increase during the transition. U.S. troops fought Mehdi Army militia in the holy city of Najaf and arrested a senior aide to their leader, Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
Two engineers from a Russian firm and two Iraqis were killed when their bus was attacked at the gates to Baghdad's main Dora power station, the Russian Foreign Ministry said. Five other employees of Russia's Interenergoservis company were wounded.
Despite Moscow's opposition to the U.S. invasion, Russians working on Iraqi power stations have been killed and kidnapped.
Russian engineers, used to working with limited resources, have helped keep Iraq's war-damaged electricity supply running. But a company official told Rossiya television the firm was being targeted and was now planning to evacuate remaining staff.
U.S. officials accuse anti-American guerrillas of trying to sabotage infrastructure to foster disaffection with their rule.
SADR AIDE HELD
U.S. tanks and airborne gunships were in action before dawn around Najaf, where medical staff said at least nine people were killed and 36 wounded in fighting at an ancient cemetery.
Sadr's spokesman Qais al-Khazali said a close aide and relative of Sadr, Riyad al-Noury, was seized during an overnight raid on his home in Najaf. Three other aides evaded capture.
"This is part of the U.S. military escalation against the Shi'ites," he said. "What is happening is a liquidation of Shi'ites, especially the Sadr movement."
Sadr's militia launched an uprising last month across southern Iraq, home to most of the long oppressed 60 percent Shi'ite majority. They are now mainly confined to Najaf, nearby Kufa and the holy city of Kerbala, 50 km (30 miles) away.
U.S. forces, who say Sadr must face Iraqi justice over the murder of a rival cleric, would like to isolate him from the Shi'ite community. But while he has irritated many Shi'ite elders he remains popular with millions, especially the young.
SOVEREIGN COMPROMISE
Within hours of a draft U.N. resolution being presented by the United States and Britain seeking Security Council endorsement of its transition plan, there were conflicting interpretations of how sovereign the new government would be over 150,000 U.S., British and other troops in Iraq.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), who had appeared to go further than Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) in his vision of Iraqi control of U.S. forces, denied he was at odds with Washington over the command of troops.
"There is absolutely no doubt at all that...the ultimate strategic and political decision-making passes to the Iraqi government after the 30th of June," he told parliament.
"Once strategic decisions have been made, the running of any operations is under the military forces and the commanders of those forces."
United Nations (news - web sites) envoy Lakhdar Brahimi is in Baghdad to pick a government team that will satisfy competing claims among Iraq's various religious and ethnic groups and can be counted on to work with the Americans to organize elections in the new year.
Shahristani told Reuters: "The consultations have not been concluded yet and Mr. Brahimi has not made his recommendation.
"I personally prefer to serve the people of Iraq in humanitarian fields as I have done since my escape from Abu Ghraib in 1991," he wrote in an e-mail in English. "However, putting the country on route to democracy and protecting the population from terrorists and violence is the responsibility of Iraqis, and we have to burden that responsibility."
Thirty government appointments are expected in a week or so.
Asked about Brahimi's choices, a source with close ties to the Bush administration said: "Shahristani for prime minister."
A devout man who prefers a secular to an Islamic state, he is close to Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's top Shi'ite cleric.
Another U.S. source said he expected Adnan Pachachi, a Sunni who was foreign minister in the 1960s, to be president.
Shahristani, educated in Britain and Canada and from a distinguished family, was tortured and imprisoned by Saddam after refusing to develop nuclear weapons for him. He spent 11 years in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison before escaping in 1991.
mporter wrote:Ha ha- Is that the best you can do. My reference to the Mayo Clinic was to show that the Socialist Medical System in Canada is a broken down wreck.
I would expect nothing but the best from a country that has so many know it alls telling the USA what to do.
It would have been better had I actually considered giving you a serious response. If you MUST know, at least in this city that I reside in, the medical system is a mess, mostly because a CONSERVATIVE government decided that closing hospitals was a great way to "cut costs". Too bad they did this just before the SARS epidemic.
Archbishop--
Your list above is incorrect.
Iraq does get control of prisons on June 30.
They currently have no armed forces to control, but we are helping them with this by training an army for them.
They will select candidates and vote in January...
How do you know the other items on your list are correct?
He said it again today, but sort of louder, saying ...'full and "complete" sovereignty on June 30'. Newscasters, some, are taking spokesmen/women to task on this point, but without the vigor they ought to. That's coming in the printed press mainly.
Con Job Iraq
By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Iraqi Governing Council on Friday nominated one of its own members, Iyad Allawi, a Shiite Muslim physician who spent years in exile, to become prime minister of the new government to take power June 30, members said.
The chief U.S. administrator in Iraq (news - web sites), L. Paul Bremer, was at Friday's council session and congratulated Allawi on his nomination, said Mustafa al-Marayati, an aide to council member Raja Habib al-Khuzaai.
The council also planned to nominate a president and two vice presidents. But it was not known whether U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi has approved the choices.
~snip~
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap...
CIA-backed exile leader
During his years in exile organizing anti-Saddam opposition, Allawi had support from CIA and State Department officials who were wary of the Defense Department's favorite, Ahmad Chalabi.
Allawi, a Shiite Muslim neurologist and businessman involved in the opposition since the 1970s, is related to Chalabi, but the two are not regarded as particularly close. He has long been seen as a rival of Chalabi's, although they worked together in coordinating anti-Saddam exile groups.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5084420 /
* A Prime Minister, a President and two VPs. This new interim Govt. is a bit strange.
Brahimi isn't to thrilled with the job because he was against the invasion, and the Iraqi people aren't real hot on him either.
Hopefully all that will gel though.
Brahimi said today (or yesterday) when asked about who was choosing the particular candidate, that "basically, the choice would be determined by the coalition and the council".
Which, of course, is at variance with what the administration is saying "It will be Brahimi's choice."
But we ought to believe this administration, as they've given us no real reasons to suspect that what they might say would be false.
!
Full Sovereignty? No!!!! Not even close.
Quote:Throughout the spring, as hundreds died in the spiraling conflict, as Regime bosses applied their hardcore "anti-terrorist" tortures to innocent bystanders raked up in their occupation nets, as Regime mouthpieces prated endlessly of "liberation" and "sovereignty," Bush viceroy Paul Bremer was quietly signing a series of edicts that will give the United States effective control over the military, ministries -- and money -- of any Iraqi government, for years to come, The Wall Street Journal reports.
Bremer has placed U.S.-appointed "commissions" made up of Americans and local puppets throughout Iraqi government agencies; the ministers supposedly in charge weren't even told of the edicts. These boards "will serve multiyear terms and have significant authority to run criminal investigations, award contracts, direct troops and subpoena citizens," the Journal reports. Any new Iraqi government "will have little control over its armed forces, lack the ability to make or change laws and be unable to make major decisions within specific ministries without tacit U.S. approval, say U.S. officials."
Earlier Bremer edicts laid the Iraqi economy wide open to ruthless exploitation by Bush-approved foreign "investors"; dominance of such key sectors as banking, communications -- and energy -- is already well advanced. The latest dictates aim to ensure that this organized looting goes on, no matter what kind of makeshift "interim government" the United Nations manage to piece together. Bush's plans to build a Saddamite fortress embassy in Baghdad and 14 permanent military bases around the country are designed to provide the knee-breaking "security" for these lucrative arrangements
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/05/21/120.html
Radikal, It's just a matter of time before the whole world knows about these "secret" edicts that will show that the US never had any intentions of handing over sovereignty to Iraq. I'm just wondering when all this is going to backfire on Bush and his crooks. ooops, I mean "administration."
!
I am not so sure Amerikans will hear about the "edicts" and that this "sovereignty" is bogus. The Amerikan Media isn't to keen on revealing truth, unless shocking photos accomony that truth.
The Iraqis won't be rejoicing in the streets once the new interim govt. is announced. Of that I am real sure of.
My guess: There are two leaders in Iraq now that most Iraqis respect. Al Sistani and al Sadr. Sometime in July al Sistani, if still alive, will call for the Occupation to end with 30 days. After that if it doesn't he will call for an Uprising. Al Sadr, if still alive and not co-opted by Bushco will prolly lead the Uprising.
blatham wrote:He said it again today, but sort of louder, saying ...'full and "complete" sovereignty on June 30'. Newscasters, some, are taking spokesmen/women to task on this point, but without the vigor they ought to. That's coming in the printed press mainly.
Blatham
The following is from a NYTimes article by Dexter Filkens and may explain why Bush is stating Soverignty the way he is:
Quote:
<Once it became clear that democratic elections could not be held this year, there was a consensus among the Shiite leadership, particularly the Grand Ayatolah al-Sinstani,the countries most powerful Shiite religious leader, that whoever made up the interim government should not exercise a lot of political authority. Sistani did not want the gov't signing treaties, passing laws or drawing up constitutions becaue they would not have any lasting legitimacy.>
Is it not possible that the Bush adminisltration accepted the reality that Sistani is so powerful that it would be futile to insist on any other course of action but this explanation would fit into their plans of not wanting to turn over "FULL" sovereignty in the strict sense of the term.
Now since you are a socialist elitist (keep the masses ignorant of our true aims because they are just that----ignorant of what is best for them) you would understand the smoke screen that you call lies. Could it be that you are incensed that the Bush administration is using tactics from the elite socialist play book?
Now of course you nor any self respecting liberal would ever think the Bush bunch of "incompetents" could ever be clever enout to use this as cover for what they wanted all along
Iraqi Foreign Minister Off to UN, Seeks Sovereignty
35 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari will head to New York on Tuesday to press for his country to be granted "full sovereignty" in a new United Nations (news - web sites) resolution, a senior ministry official told Reuters.
"We'll be pushing very hard for that," the official said, without detailing whether Iraq (news - web sites) was seeking amendments to the draft resolution presented to the Security Council by the United States and Britain, the main occupying powers.
Iraq's U.S.-appointed Governing Council has said it would like changes in the resolution, notably to give Iraq clear powers to ask the 150,000 mainly American foreign troops on its soil to leave. A clause imposing an international audit on Iraq's use of its oil revenues is also not popular in Baghdad.
The official said that Zebari expected to retain the post of foreign minister in the new interim government being formed at the moment. A formal announcement of the line-up of the cabinet that will take sovereign power on June 30 under the resolution is expected as early as Tuesday.
The present government works under the U.S.-led occupation administration. The new one will have formal sovereignty.
Senior Iraqi politicians had said previously that Zebari might move to the defense ministry while a fellow Kurd, Barham Salih, would take over the foreign affairs portfolio.
perc
My argument in its entirety is that the use of 'full and complete' is simply a lie, and that it is a lie designed for home consumption.
If you've been following the story lately, you'll know that Bhahimi, who the administration has claimed will be the person who chooses the individuals for the Iraq government, has said that no, it really isn't like that at all. Thus, another lie.
Regardless of all else, you have an administration in place who is so comfortable pretending to tell you the truth but then stiffing you...countless times on so many areas of policy...that you've come to believe that this is the proper or a necessary way for a democratic government to function.
I'd far rather have a right-leaning government that had integrity to the truth (say, as a government led by McCain would likely have) than a left-leaning government that lied about so much of importance as has this one.
