9
   

When did it become OK to kill human shields?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 07:19 am
@bobsal u1553115,
No question of it.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 09:56 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
it is claiming that Israel is not morally accountable for killing children because Hamas wants them to.


No that not it at all.

Israel have a right both morally and "legally" to attacks targets that are launching thousands of weapons that are design to killed their women and children and have no military purposes.

An that right is not decrease in any manner if Hamas cover those targets with their own women and children.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:07 pm
@BillRM,
Seriously? They're being killed in their beds, in schools, in hospitals, in UN sanctuaries. The Israelis kill wholesale.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:16 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Seriously? They're being killed in their beds, in schools, in hospitals, in UN sanctuaries. The Israelis kill wholesale.


BULLSHIT as in schools and hospitals being used as places to stockpile rockets and other weapons.

Rockets was found in UN shelters!!!!!!!!
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:


http://mashable.com/2014/07/23/u-n-rockets-school-gaza/

UNITED NATIONS — The U.N. secretary-general on Wednesday said he was "alarmed" to hear that rockets were placed in a U.N.-run school in Gaza, and now "have gone missing." He also demanded a full review of such incidents.

A spokesperson for Ban Ki-moon expressed the U.N. chief's "outrage and regret" at the placement of weapons at a site run by the global organization. This has happened at least twice so far in the current conflict, according to the U.N.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:23 pm
@BillRM,
BULLSHIT. Prove it.

Palestinan children killed just till July 21

http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/html/Years/2014/July/img/gazaDeaths2.png

How many Israeli civilians killed by Hamas? How many children?

Ten civilians total. TEN.

BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:24 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
By the way all those thousands of missile being fired at Israel have no military use and is only a mean to killed Jewish women and children.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:27 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Seriously? They're being killed in their beds, in schools, in hospitals, in UN sanctuaries. The Israelis kill wholesale.


If the Palestinians are going to use schools and hospitals as sites fpr hiding their weapona and launching their rockets, it has to be expected that those schools and hospitals will become legitimate targets. But, of course, that's exactly what the Taliban wants.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 10:32 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
How many Israeli civilians killed by Hamas? How many children?

Ten civilians total. TEN.


So to get the moral high ground you are suggesting that Israel should shut down their iron dome missile defenses and stop knocking out the launchers until their death toll is the same as the Palestinians who are sitting on those launchers?

London under a similar V2 attack in ww2 without a missile defense system or the abilities to pound the launching sites to the same degree lost 10,000 men women and children in the city of London alone.

The amount of high explosive fired into Israel to date is only roughly half the amount drop on London that ended up killing 10,000.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2014 11:53 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
If the Palestinians are going to use schools and hospitals as sites fpr hiding their weapona and launching their rockets, it has to be expected that those schools and hospitals will become legitimate targets.


Why?

No one here is defending Hamas. The point is that in spite of Hamas, Israel's deadly actions are still morally indefensible.

Israel is lying when they say they are doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties. I can think of plenty they can do, starting with not shooting at places where civilians are hiding.
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 12:11 am
@maxdancona,
The basic logic is as follows:

Your family is indoors eating dinner and some asshole is walking up to your house with a hand grenade in one hand and one of HIS kids in the other as a human shield, and you've got a gun....

Whatcha gonna do?? You gonna say:

Quote:
Gee, I'm not going to harm that precious child!!


Really?????????????
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 02:04 am
@gungasnake,
Says the man who denies the Srebrenica massacre. When it comes to Moslems you just repeat the same ingrained bigotry, logic doesn't come into it.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 02:15 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Hamas is a banned terrorist organisation, and suffers all of the sanctions that goes along with that.

Israel, despite all the carnage and loss of civilian life is treated with kid gloves. Last year alone, it received over US$3 Billion in military aid from America, and it enjoys favoured nation status in its dealings with the EU.

We have a right to expect some level of decency in return, there is none.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 03:30 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
No one here is defending Hamas. The point is that in spite of Hamas, Israel's deadly actions are still morally indefensible.


Nonsense as their first moral obligation is to protected their own women and children and that what they are doing by knocking out the means being used to try to killed them,
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 03:36 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Your family is indoors eating dinner and some asshole is walking up to your house with a hand grenade in one hand and one of HIS kids in the other as a human shield, and you've got a gun....

Whatcha gonna do?? You gonna say:


I might not fired if it was only myself in the house but if it was my wife and grandchildren behind me hell no I would open fired at once nor would there be a moral problem in doing so.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 03:53 am
@BillRM,
Here is a more realistic scenario, which actually fits in with the Palestinian experience.

Sarah Palin, or someone like her, becomes president, because of your internet activity and support of Snowden, you are automatically designated as a terrorist. Not only that you have firearms, and clearly you are using your family as human shields by keeping them in the same house as your weapons.

In order to save the lives of law enforcement officers your house is hit by artillery fire killing your entire family. This is reported as proof of how little you value human life because you use your own family as human shields.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 04:48 am
Shmuel Rosner notes:

"Here is one example of the problem with the status quo (besides the obvious need to get rid of Hamas' arsenal of rockets): Last year, Israel removed a restriction on imports of building materials into the Gaza Strip. The decision allowed Palestinians an import of 70 trucks a day of gravel, metal bars and cement for construction projects. This gravel and cement is found below ground level now, in the tunnels [terror tunnels reaching under Israel], and thus, Israel is unlikely to go back to letting such material go in, without having in place a way of verifying that the material will only be used for construction of, well, things that Gaza truly needs, such as houses and roads."

This is what I mean about not feeling sorry for snakes. Any little slip up, no matter how small, any little concession to the normal human tendency towards empathy, and you and/or other innocents are simply going to get hurt. There actually are people on Earth worth feeling sorry for, but "palestinians" are not amongst them.

There are no really happy stories in the muslim world since false religions generally do not produce happiness, but the three least happy stories are those of the "palestinians", albanians, and chechens, and palestinians are probably the worst of the lot. Their main problems are, in my view:

1. A false religion which is said to have "bloody borders".
2. Inbreeding. Something like 50% of all muslims are said to be inbred and in places like Pakistan or Gaza, that rises to 60% or 70%. Simple Google searches on "muslim inbreeding" and/or "palestinian inbreeding" will quickly convince you I'm not making this up.
3. A studied and extreme form of victimology which is abetted and reenforced by UN agencies and which you can read about at www.palwatch.org if you're not already familiar with the problem.
4. A brutal indoctrination system for children.

Palestinians are basically the kind of people who give barbarians everywhere a bad name and it is irrational to expect Israelis to forever just sit there and absorb the daily rocket barrages and having terror tunnels dug underneath their territory. Any other nation on Earth would be carpet bombing Gaza by now.

Al Wilson on feeling sorry for snakes, the so-called "Anthem of Northern Soul":
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 06:02 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Lustig Andrei wrote:
If the Palestinians are going to use schools and hospitals as sites fpr hiding their weapona and launching their rockets, it has to be expected that those schools and hospitals will become legitimate targets.

Why?

Because states have a right under international law to eradicate positions that are being used to launch military attacks against them.

The fact that you think that Jews should be denied their lawful right to defend themselves, doesn't actually mean that Jews don't have that right.


maxdancona wrote:
No one here is defending Hamas. The point is that in spite of Hamas, Israel's deadly actions are still morally indefensible.

There is nothing morally indefensible about Jews defending themselves from people who attack them.

And keep in mind that most of these supposed "Palestinian casualties" are fabricated.


maxdancona wrote:
Israel is lying when they say they are doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties. I can think of plenty they can do, starting with not shooting at places where civilians are hiding.

Your dream of Jews just sitting defenseless as people murder them isn't going to happen. Deal with it.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 06:46 am
@BillRM,
Most of those rockets are of the hobby lobby caliber. Up until this latest Israeli outrage in Gaza, only ONE Israeli died: of a heart attack. Thousands and thousands of Hamas rockets and only one dead. Meanwhile Israeli rockets have killed thousands of Palestininians - civilian women and children.

Israel is a construct of Western anti-Semitism. The allies didn't want to be seen "repatriating" Jews to the Iron Curtain after doing nothing to save Jews in the run-up to WWII and ignored, hid or denied the death camps during the war. And they didn't want too many immigrading to the west, either. So they settled them on another persecuted people with no voice living in a land occupied by foriegn imperial powers - the Palestinians.
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 Aug, 2014 06:48 am
@Lustig Andrei,
I respect you too much to get into this topic with you. If you believe that Hamas and Israel on a par and matched, there's nothing I will say to you that you'll listen to.
0 Replies
 
 

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