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Interesting characters on a2k

 
 
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 06:10 am
@edgarblythe,
I'll take a do-nothing President any day over Reagan or the Bushes (pick your Bush). I'm remembering the Physician's credo is 'do no harm'. Why can't the Presidents get that?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 06:14 am
@Ragman,
Be tough on the vulnerable and spend money like drunk sailors. That's the way Republican presidents operate. I have plenty of criticism for the Democrats, but at least they are mostly human.
Germlat
 
  4  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 07:08 am
@edgarblythe,
Funny...I read these this a.m.:
You know you're a Republican when:
--You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty
--You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese
--You believe Jesus was a capitalist and was opposed to welfare
--You came of age in the 1960's and don't remember Bob Dylan
--You've urged someone to pull themselves up their bootstraps, when
They don't even have shoes.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 09:59 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:
I'll take a do-nothing President any day over Reagan or the Bushes (pick your Bush).
I'm remembering the Physician's credo is 'do no harm'. Why can't the Presidents get that?
That 's my attitude toward leftist presidents.
Thay love to usurp power, exceeding their jurisdiction in ultra vires activity.

It'd be a lot better if leftists just drank all nite & slept all day.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 10:09 am
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
Funny...I read these this a.m.:
You know you're a Republican when:
--You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty
--You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese
--You believe Jesus was a capitalist and was opposed to welfare
--You came of age in the 1960's and don't remember Bob Dylan
--You've urged someone to pull themselves up their bootstraps, when
They don't even have shoes.
I got a laff from that,
but I 've always been a Republican,
tho I FIERCELY support n defend
freedom of abortion, as an aspect
of the rights of self-defense that we all share.

I lived thru the 1960s, but Bob Dylan was only
on the outer-most edge of my cognitive periphery.
He was like the planet Pluto: u 've heard that its out there,
but u 've never quite seen it.

I know that people actually HAVE raised themselves from destitution to great wealth.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 10:18 am
Less government = greater freedom. That's a popular notion now with the Hayek/libertarian crowd. They consider it a self-evident truth.

Let's note first of all that the formula inevitably rejects citizen democracy at any point where the majority of citizens themselves knowingly choose a government which forwards social programs or which institutes or continues progressive taxation or which supports serious curbs on how business entities go about their business, etc. A community cannot, in this "libertarian" model, be considered free if its citizens knowingly establish a political system divergent from the model.

Further, there's an attending belief that this model is the route to the community's prosperity and that a "socialist" or social democratic model will thwart prosperity.

But the real world doesn't provide evidence except in pretty much complete contradiction of both of those axiomatic presumptions.

The nations that we commonly refer to (with good reason) as members of "the free world" are all social democracies. Every one of them. No exceptions. And it is these nations which demonstrate the greatest levels of civil liberties, personal safety, health, happiness (generally) and prosperity. Every one of these nations have long traditions of progressive taxation and large social programs. Including the US, of course. If that "libertarian" formulation had grounding in reality, it is rather difficult to see how the above would hold true and hold true so universally.

And there's another side to this dilemma for them. One ought to be able to point to exemplars of successful, prosperous nations where high levels of civil liberties and citizen happiness are evident and which operate on the model these Hayek fans cheer for.

But there isn't even a single such exemplar.



cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 11:08 am
@blatham,
What is so fascinating to watch are those who complains about big government and taxation while their own lives falls deeper into depression. Many believe that helping the rich keep their wealth will eventually trickle down to them in jobs and better incomes.

They've been fighting this idiotic idea for several decades while their own lives have been losing the war. The rich do not spend; it's the middle class that keeps up consumption that makes of over 70% of our economy. When the middle class is squeezed by not keeping up with inflation, our economy begins to suffer.

Four out of ten families are now struggling to stay afloat. That number will increase as the population continues to fight for the rich that continues to accumulate more wealth.

It's a sick world.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 11:35 am
@cicerone imposter,
Yes. What's happening now in Kansas is illustrative. Second consecutive credit downgrade (or is it the third?) since he's instituted his "libertarian" experiment. The place is now in serious trouble. In the recent primary, a total unknown got 30some percent of the vote and when asked how this all could have happened, Brownback blamed, of course, Obama, saying that people are now so angry at the President that they are getting kind of crazy and throwing bricks anywhere.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 11:56 am
I heard a good definition of a "libertarian" recently: that's someone who is opposed to governance, except for a strong police force to protect him from his slave labor.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 01:33 pm
@Setanta,
Yes indeed!
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 01:42 pm
@Setanta,
I once heard that a libertarian is like a cat. Totally independent in its own mind, and completely dependent on someone else for food, water, and shelter.

I hope it wasn't here that I heard that. Embarrassed
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 01:46 pm
@blatham,
Yup, here's some interesting reading from Huff Post on Kansas and other 'liberal' states that includes California.
Quote:
National Identity'

Pulling Back the Curtain on Sam Brownback's Kansas Financial Meltdown
Posted: 05/12/2014 4:19 pm EDT Updated: 07/12/2014 5:59 am EDT Print
Let's review, shall we? First there was the bad news from Kansas:

TOPEKA -- Tax revenue in April dropped 45 percent from a year ago, the Kansas Department of Revenue announced Wednesday.
The state's revenue for the year is $92.9 million less than projected earlier this month....
Personal income tax revenue has decreased by $508 million compared with this point last fiscal year. That category also accounted for the discrepancy between Wednesday's numbers and estimates released earlier in the month. Income tax revenue was $89.6 million lower than expected.
This huge and escalating shortfall occurred after Kansas's right-wing Republican legislature and governor, Sam Brownback, enacted huge and foolish tax cuts, the result of which was--as Senate Minority Leader Anthony Hensley (D-Topeka) explained--to transfer the tax burden from the rich to the middle and lower classes. The revenue shortfall also led Moody's to downgrade Kansas's debt, something that will cost its citizens even more money over the coming years as they borrow to make up the lost revenue.

So, are Brownback and his fellow Republicans willing to say, "Oops, my bad!"?

"What we are seeing today is the effect of tax increases implemented by the Obama administration that resulted in lower income tax payments and a depressed business environment," Gov. Sam Brownback said in a statement.
"The failed economic policies of the Obama administration are affecting states throughout the nation. It is more important than ever that we continue our focus on growing jobs and creating a business-friendly environment that benefits Kansans," Brownback said.
Please unstick your palm from your forehead. Hey, maybe Brownback is right. Don't laugh. Maybe Obama's policies are leading to revenue shortfalls for government across the board. Maybe?

The U.S. Treasury Department booked a $114 billion surplus in April, the largest for that month since 2008, according to the latest estimates from the Congressional Budget Office released Wednesday.
That's just April, though. How about overall?

For the fifth consecutive year, the U.S. annual deficit is projected to fall as a share of the economy, and to do so more than previously forecast.
The Congressional Budget Office projected Monday that the 2014 shortfall will decline to 2.8% of GDP -- or $492 billion. That's about $23 billion below what the CBO forecast just a few months ago. And it's well below the 4.1% -- or $680 billion -- recorded last year.
Kansas cuts taxes on the rich, and its revenues fall through the floor. That's Obama's fault, according to the governor. Obama raised taxes on the rich (through income tax hikes and Obamacare-related tax hikes), but federal revenues are through the roof and the deficit is plummeting. Anybody seeing a disconnect here? I know Brownback has worked hard to weaken public education in Kansas. I guess he figures if no one in the state is educated, they won't be able to figure out he's been pulling the wool over their eyes.

Markos has already highlighted a comprehensive study showing that states that embrace a conservative approach to economic policy (as defined by right-wing group ALEC) have weaker economic growth than those that don't.

But we can even get more specific than that. The author of that study, Menzie Chinn, also looked at two states where, in 2011, a Republican governor replaced a Democratic one and ushered in a radical rightward shift in state policy (Wisconsin and the aforementioned Kansas), and compared them to two states that did the opposite in 2011, i.e. elected a Democratic governor to replace a Republican one (California and Minnesota). It's worth noting that, of the latter two, California saw the most significant shift in policy as a Democratic legislature combined with Gov. Jerry Brown to enact an even greater leftward shift starting in 2011 than Minnesota's Mark Dayton was able to accomplish with a legislature that remained Republican after he took office.

What did Chinn find? Well, in terms of job creation since 2011, it's clear: The more liberalism, the more jobs. What's that you say? That's right. "Pro-business" policies stink at creating jobs. Progressive policies, however, do the job far better.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 01:56 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

Funny...I read these this a.m.:
You know you're a Republican when:
--You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty
--You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese
--You believe Jesus was a capitalist and was opposed to welfare
--You came of age in the 1960's and don't remember Bob Dylan
--You've urged someone to pull themselves up their bootstraps, when they don't even have shoes.

I am a Republican of long standing. Let's see how accurate your accusation is:

--You're a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty
Correct. Unborn children didn't commit murder with aggravating circumstances, so they should probably be treated differently from people who did.
--You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese
No, I have known what the word means since I was about 14.
--You believe Jesus was a capitalist and was opposed to welfare
No.
--You came of age in the 1960's and don't remember Bob Dylan
I did come of age in the 196os and I am a huge Dylan fan. I even own several documentaries on DVD about him.
--You've urged someone to pull themselves up their bootstraps, when
They don't even have shoes.
No. I think that people who don't have shoes should be given shoes, other clothing, food, shelter, and training.

So, in my case, your accuracy is 20%.
Germlat
 
  3  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 02:56 pm
@Brandon9000,
Do you understand the term humorous?
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 03:17 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:
Do you understand the term humorous?

So, your humor is to attribute to your political opponents bad qualities, which they do not, in general, possess?
Germlat
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 03:28 pm
@Brandon9000,
I can actually find humor in most things...including myself.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 03:45 pm
What does the long bone of the upper arm have to do with Republicans--an often mirthless lot.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 04:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Good find, ci. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 04:20 pm
@roger,
I've always been deeply unimpressed with those who call themselves libertarians as the source of clean water, sewage and other waste removal, fire protection, police protection, reliably safe food and drugs, reliably maintained highways, etc., etc.--is the government. It's easy to sneer at an decry the government while benefiting from the works of the government.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Aug, 2014 05:18 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I heard a good definition of a "libertarian" recently:
that's someone who is opposed to governance,
except for a strong police force to protect him from his slave labor.
Its better to go with automation.
0 Replies
 
 

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