What good does it do for those in the areas designed to be attacked to go to UN Shelter or somewhere else when the place they go to be sheltered is bombed as well? A man from the Gaza strip put it well.
Quote:
I asked one man whether or not he felt safe. He said he thought the situation wasn't safe, but people were phoning him to ask whether or not they should come back. He was telling them they should.
He said the reason for that, in his own words, was: "I would rather die in my own home than in a UN school".
A UN shelter is much less likely to be damaged in the fighting. And even if damaged, is much less likely to be heavily damaged.
0 Replies
mysteryman
-2
Sun 3 Aug, 2014 05:22 pm
I hace said it before, but Israel is acting in self defense.
I do believe they have gone waaay overboard this time, attacking a UN schoollike they did.
Now, IF the Palestinians do get their own state, what should Israel do?
Should they leave everything they have built?
IMHO, no they shouldnt.
IF Israel withdraws from the West Bank, they should adopt a scorched earth policy when they leave.
They should destroy everything they have built, from the roads to the buildings. All water plants, all infrastructure, all houses, everything.
If they built it, they should destroy it.
And then, they should immediately block any material destined for the Palestinians from crossing their soil at all.
After all, Israel is not required to trade with any other country, and if the Palestinians want their own country they should build it themselves.
I hace said it before, but Israel is acting in self defense.
I do believe they have gone waaay overboard this time, attacking a UN schoollike they did.
Now, IF the Palestinians do get their own state, what should Israel do?
Should they leave everything they have built?
IMHO, no they shouldnt.
IF Israel withdraws from the West Bank, they should adopt a scorched earth policy when they leave.
They should destroy everything they have built, from the roads to the buildings. All water plants, all infrastructure, all houses, everything.
If they built it, they should destroy it.
And then, they should immediately block any material destined for the Palestinians from crossing their soil at all.
After all, Israel is not required to trade with any other country, and if the Palestinians want their own country they should build it themselves.
Mysteryman...you are way more than this.
You must have posted this in haste...because it is an abomination.
Too damn right, an occupied people brutally oppressed for almost 50 years. It's called basic humanity.
0 Replies
izzythepush
2
Sun 3 Aug, 2014 06:15 pm
@mysteryman,
At the moment the only country Palestine can trade with is Israel, the ports are blockaded, and they are forced to buy everything from Israel, power, water the lot. They're used as a commodity, just like the Nazis used the warsaw ghetto.
I'm sure most Palestinians would welcome what you suggested, it's infinitely preferable to what's happening right now. At least nobody will be murdering their children.
0 Replies
ossobuco
2
Sun 3 Aug, 2014 07:05 pm
@izzythepush,
It is to weep.
0 Replies
ossobuco
3
Sun 3 Aug, 2014 07:21 pm
I'm in an odd place. I'm not a hamas fan but I've understood. I was originally very pro israel, but I've dumped that over time re the right wing seeming majority, gradually and then completely. I'm well aware not all jews in Israel are backers of all this. But, the aggressive have won.
Sort of like me standing against our going into Iraq. Useless.
Why we in the u.s. promote and fund, well, money, honey, so it seems.
The foreword is a useful precis of the work, reproduced here:
Foreword
Lord Gilmour of Craigmiller
In 1896, Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism, claimed that as far as Europe was concerned the Zionists in Palestine would “constitute . . . part of the rampart against Asia, we would occupy the outposts of civilization, stemming the tide of barbarism”. Some early British Zionists, such as Arthur Balfour, doubtless believed him, and because of the unceasing barrage of Israeli propaganda in the US media many Americans still cling to this view.
In his crisp and eloquent book, Might Over Right, Adel Safty puts the record straight. With scholarly care he vividly demonstrates how the Zionists’ inexorable annexation of Palestine at the expense of its rightful inhabitants has rather led them to behave like an outpost of ‘barbarism’, relentlessly destroying an almost defenceless Palestinian ‘civilization’. For the last hundred years or so the Palestinians have almost invariably had ‘right’ on their side, yet the Zionists or Israelis have always had ‘might’ on theirs. And of course ‘might’ has easily won the unequal struggle.
From 1917 until the period after the Second World War, Zionist ‘might’ was largely supplied by Britain. Since then it has come from the Israelis themselves and from their American sponsors. We in Britain have become so accustomed to the strength of the pro-Israeli lobbies in Washington and to the outrageous bias of successive American administrations in favour of Israel – at the UN in the past 30 years the United States has cast 34 vetoes in favour of Israel, many of them defying international law, as well as supplying Israel with cascades of military weapons and billions of dollars – that it is salutary to be reminded by Mr Safty that Britain played a similar if not so crudely partisan role for most of the 30 years after 1917.
Britain’s Balfour Declaration in 1917 promised something to a third party which was not hers to give, that it is to say Palestine. Even then this third party had every intention of displacing the existing inhabitants, and the Declaration was and is inexcusable. This is not just hindsight. Men like Lord Curzon realized at the time that Balfour’s folly would have disastrous consequences. And there was no doubt even then about the Zionist objective. When asked at the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919 to spell out the true aim of his movement, the supposedly moderate Zionist, Chaim Weizmann, said that it was to make “Palestine as Jewish as England is English”. With the population of Palestine then being less than 10% Jewish, that could only mean removing most of the other 90% at some point.
Balfour was well aware that the Jews were in a small minority in Palestine. “The weak point of our position”, he told the Prime Minister, Lloyd George, “is that in the case of Palestine we deliberately and rightly decline to accept the principle of self-determination”. A few months later he cynically confessed that “so far as Palestine is concerned the Powers have made no statement of fact which is not admittedly wrong, and no declaration of policy which at least in the letter they have not always intended to violate”. As a Foreign Office official justly commented, “Palestine is to go to the Zionists irrespective of the wishes of the great bulk of the population . . . The idea that [this] will entail bloodshed and military repression never seems to have occurred to [Balfour]”.
The Palestinians did eventually revolt, as they were bound to do when they saw that the Zionists intended to establish in Palestine a foreign state which would oppress its Arab subjects and/or expel them. But the British bloodily trampled down the Arab rebels, evidently not realizing that it was they themselves who had caused the inevitable rebellion. The Zionist leader knew better. David Ben-Gurion, later Israel’s first and greatest Prime Minister, said that “were he an Arab . . . he would also rebel, with even greater intensity, and with greater bitterness and despair”. Unfortunately, that understanding did not influence his subsequent conduct.
Zionism has never been a humanitarian movement; it has always been an aggressively nationalist one. During the pre-war Nazi persecution of the Jews, the British government proposed that thousands of JewishGerman children be admitted into Britain. Yet Ben-Gurion strongly opposed that humanitarian suggestion. He told his fellow Zionists that if he knew that “it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then [he] would opt for the second alternative”. Zionist fanaticism thus led Ben-Gurion to a position worthy of King Herod.
A similar level of ruthless cynicism and absence of scruple was evident in the proposal by a Jewish terrorist group, the Stern Gang, (to which the future Israeli Prime Minister Itzhak Shamir prominently belonged) that there should be an alliance between Nazi Germany and a future Jewish state. Despite that flirtation, in 1943 Ben-Gurion opened what the pro-Israeli historian, Christopher Sykes, whom I was lucky enough to know, called “a new phase in Zionist propaganda: henceforth to be anti-Zionist was to be anti-Semitic; to disapprove of Jewish territorial nationalism was to be a Nazi”. However discreditable this position, it proved a potent propaganda tool and remains so, especially in the United States.
Israel is now strongly opposed to ‘terrorism’, stigmatizing as ‘terrorist’ even fully legitimate Palestinian acts of resistance against Israel’s brutal army of occupation. Nevertheless the state of Israel was of course itself created by terrorism – both against the British and the Palestinians. In April 1948 the Irgun, the terrorist organization led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel), committed a particularly appalling atrocity – the massacre of Deir Yassein. Not long afterwards a number of prominent Jewish Americans, including Albert Einstein, objected to Begin visiting the United States, saying that his political party, the ‘Freedom Party’, the predecessor of Ariel Sharon’s Likud Party, was “closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy, and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties”.
The Arab world has always had so strong a case on the issue of Palestine that extraordinary incompetence and inefficiency has been required for the message not to get across, yet it has rarely done so, an abject and disastrous failure which is rightly criticized in this book. The complete master of his subject, Adel Safty graphically recounts how the Zionists achieved their aim of dispossessing and driving out most of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine. Through his liberal use of telling quotations, Adel Safty enables the Zionists to condemn themselves out of their own mouths. He has produced a masterly and unanswerable indictment of Zionist and Israeli policies past and present.
I was originally very pro israel, but I've dumped that over time re the right wing seeming majority, gradually and then completely. I'm well aware not all jews in Israel are backers of all this. But, the aggressive have won.
It is always noteworthy when you compare "the thugs who support Palestinian scum" and "the thugs who support sending innocent people to prison".
The same set of thugs is behind both outrages.
It's a shame the Palestinian death toll is fabricated. It would be cool if that many Palestinians really had been killed.
0 Replies
oralloy
-2
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 10:23 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
In his crisp and eloquent book, Might Over Right, Adel Safty puts the record straight. With scholarly care he vividly demonstrates how the Zionists’ inexorable annexation of Palestine at the expense of its rightful inhabitants...
Anti-Semitism.
0 Replies
buttflake
-1
Mon 4 Aug, 2014 01:20 pm
Quote:
The Missing Pictures of Gaza
Last week, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency posed an interesting question to the New York Times: Why isn’t it publishing any pictures of Hamas fighters in Gaza? The answer from the Times and from other media outlets about the lack of any depictions of Hamas terrorists or rocket launchings speaks volumes about the biased nature of much of the coverage of the war.
Quote:
The answer is fairly obvious: despite denials, foreign journalists in Gaza take great care not to depict Hamas military actions because to do so would be to jeopardize their ability to continue to report from Gaza or, even worse, invite attacks from these terrorists. This is not the first time we’ve seen this sort of thing happening. A generation ago, Thomas Friedman and others wrote about the difficulty of reporting accurately about the Palestine Liberation Organization when Yasir Arafat’s terrorists exercised their reign of terror in southern Lebanon and parts of Beirut. The same was true in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq when CNN defended its exclusive niche in Baghdad by failing to tell the truth about what that evil regime was doing. Subsequent admissions from CNN about making tough decisions after Saddam’s fall make the network’s current disclaimers about its reporters and camera operators being subjected to intimidation ring false.
Israeli official calls for concentration camps in Gaza and 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters'
Published: 07:09 EST, 4 August 2014 | Updated: 12:54 EST, 4 August 2014
Moshe Feiglin called for concentration camps in Gaza in his action plan
An Israeli official has called for concentration camps in Gaza and ‘the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters’.
Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, posted the inflammatory message on his Facebook page at the weekend.
He lays out a detailed plan for the destruction of Gaza - which includes shipping its residents across the world - in a letter he addressed to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
The message, which received more than 2,000 likes on his page, lists four action points which he wants to be enforced as soon as possible.
Feiglin details the first one as 'defining the enemy' and states: 'The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)'
He says another important part of his plan is the 'conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.'
Moshe Feiglin is Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu¿s ruling Likud Party, and posted the message on his Facebook page at the weekend
Moshe Feiglin is Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, and posted the message on his Facebook page at the weekend
He lays out a detailed plan for the destruction of Gaza - which includes shipping its residents across the world - in a letter he addressed to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
He lays out a detailed plan for the destruction of Gaza - which includes shipping its residents across the world - in a letter he addressed to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
The Gaza war, now in its fourth week, has left more than 1,800 Palestinians dead.
Feiglin details how he wants the Israeli PM 'to turn Gaza into Jaffa, a flourishing Israeli city with a minimum number of hostile civilians.'
In 1948 Jaffa was a Palestinian town but there was an exodus of most of its Arab population when it fell to the fledgling Israeli army and right-wing Jewish militias.
Second Gaza ceasefire collapses in just SIX MINUTES after Israeli F16 jet destroys house in beach-side refugee camp, killing girl, eight
International condemnation of Israel grows: 'Appalled' US and David Cameron condemn Gaza school air strikes and France decries the 'slaughter of civilians'
Israel 'spied on John Kerry during failed peace talks with Palestinians and Arab states last year'
In the letter he expresses his desire for the IDF to find areas on the Sinai border to establish 'tent encampments...until relevant emigration destinations are determined.'
He says that the supply of electricity and water to the Gaza would be disconnected before being 'shelled with maximum fire power.'
Gazan Refugee Camp hit by Israeli Airstrike, dozens injured
In his plan the supply of electricity and water to the Gaza would be disconnected before being 'shelled with maximum fire power'
In his plan the supply of electricity and water to the Gaza would be disconnected before being 'shelled with maximum fire power'
Feiglin states: 'The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)'
Feiglin states: 'The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)'
Feiglin explains how the IDF would then 'exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.'
Establish 'tent encampments...until relevant emigration destinations are determined'
Part of his plan includes shipping the people living in Gaza across the world.
He says to encourage the movement those who willingly agree to emigrate will be given 'a generous economic support package.'
But those who resist leaving their home will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel, and receive a blue ID card similar to that of the Arabs of East Jerusalem.
Then Israeli law will be extended to cover the entire Gaza Strip and 'the city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as true Israeli touristic and commercial cities.'
A second Gaza ceasefire collapsed in just six minutes this morning after an Israeli F16 jet destroyed a house in a beach-side refugee camp, killing an eight-year-old girl and wounding dozens.
Israel announced the temporary ceasefire to facilitate the entry of humanitarian aid and allow some of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians displaced by an almost four-week-old war to go home.
Hamas said it would not be observing the truce, and warned people to exercise extreme caution when venturing out onto the streets after earlier temporary ceasefire arrangements collapsed into a frenzy of bloodshed.
Feiglin’s Facebook page is verifiable as it is linked from his official page on the Knesset website.
Israeli Prime Minister visits wounded soldiers
Palestinians remove the body of an eight-year-old from the rubble from a house hit by an Israeli airstrike in the al-Shati refugee camp in Gaza City today
Palestinians remove the body of an eight-year-old from the rubble from a house hit by an Israeli airstrike in the al-Shati refugee camp in Gaza City today
Israeli official calls for concentration camps in Gaza and 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters Israeli
Sound like a damn good plan to me if you are unlucky enough to have such murderous barbarians on your borders.
Captured Hamas Combat Manual Explains Benefits of Human Shields
Quote:
IDF forces in the Gaza Strip found a Hamas manual on “Urban Warfare,” which belonged to the Shuja’iya Brigade of Hamas’ military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades. The manual explains how the civilian population can be used against IDF forces and reveals that Hamas knows the IDF is committed to minimizing harm to civilians.
