13
   

Israel's Shame

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 04:19 pm
@izzythepush,
I think InfraBlue is perfectly capable of terminating our discussion any time he suspects I have "changed the subject," or "muddied the waters." It is quite telling though that you find it annoying that anyone might not be inclined to preserve this thread as bulletin board for hyperbolic condemnation of Israel.

I didn't charge InfraBlue with anti-Semitism (nor you for that matter). He asked why I was uncertain, and I responded. Thus far our discussion has been free of acrimony, which, unfortunately, is never the case in any discourse with you.

I am no more compelled to address anyone's perceived bigotry than are you, but since you seem to be a member of the "Silence is Acceptance" claque, you really should do a better job of addressing anti-Semitism, anti-Christian and other forms of bigotry expressed in this forum.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 04:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You wrote,
Quote:
hyperbolic condemnation of Israel.


If the reports are all based on 'exaggeration,' I guess those who were killed by the Israelis are all fictional.
Quote:
Gaza Health Ministry: Palestinian Death Toll Tops 1000
Huffington Post ‎- 1 hour ago
Many of them were children.

From the Guardian.
Quote:
In a statement, the human rights group said: "So far more than 600 people have been killed in bombings in Gaza, more than 150 of them children.


Hyperbole? You have a nefarious sense of children's lives.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 05:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Never has the maxim brevity is the soul of wit been more appropriate.

Fact "Unicef says 218 children have been killed, two-thirds of them under the age of 12." Unicef an international respected organisation.

If you think that's hyperbolic or a lie, you're the racist, you're the one with the problem.

Why do you delight so much in the deaths of so many children?

Try to be honest for once.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 05:28 pm
Quote:
Romeo said: When muslims get their hands on nukes (it's long overdue), they'll take out Tel Aviv and Israel will respond by taking out every muslim city in the mideast.After that, things might quiet down a bit..
Oralloy said: Pakistan already has nukes. It is unlikely that anyone else will be allowed to develop them.

The West has been bribing the Pakistani regime with massive "foreign aid" to keep them sweet and friendly, but friendly regimes have a habit of changing for less friendly ones further down the line, and when that happens they'll hand out freebie nukes around the muslim world.
Iran has built several nuke reactors but they say "We're not making nukes with them, honest", so Obama said "That's alright then, carry on!".
Chubbychops who runs Nth Korea has got nukes, so has "Adolf" Putin, so it's just a matter of time before muslims get them too, one way or another
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 06:35 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
... What's the difference between the 'extermination camps' of the Nazis, and the prison-like fenced communities of the Palestinians of Israel ...

Zyklon-B gas chambers, and naked women and children being hustled into supposed showers, if you must know.

Cicerone Imposter really is scum. He should go back to the Japanese internment camp where he belongs.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 07:21 pm
@oralloy,
Your ignorance is endless! It shows that your bigotry knows no bounds.
The Japanese Americans who volunteered in the military service of the US during WWII were the most decorated battalion of any war the US has been involved in. They received seven presidential citations. And 21 of its members received the Medal of Honor.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 09:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Japanese Americans who volunteered in the military service of the US during WWII


Volunteered during WW2??????????

There was a thing call the draft and I assume that being American citizens even if not fully trusted American citizens the young men would be drafted.

I also remember hearing that a not small sub-set of young Japanese Americans being piss off concerning the camps refused to serve draft or no draft.

I did a fast check and like all Americans the Japanese Americans choice was to be drafted or be imprison and I do not mean the camps.

Quote:

http://encyclopedia.densho.org/Draft_resistance/

The phrase "draft resistance" refers to resistance by nearly 300 incarcerated Japanese Americans to conscription into the United States Army under the Selective Service and Training Act of 1940. Draft resisters came from eight of the ten War Relocation Authority Camps, with the largest numbers coming from Poston and Heart Mountain. Most served time in federal prison for their resistance. Stigmatized by much of the Japanese American community at the time, they have been hailed as heroic resisters of conscience in recent decades by some. But the complexity of their individual cases resists any single label for the group.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 09:41 pm
@BillRM,
You're definitely an idiot! Those were the Americans who were put into concentration camps without being charged with any crimes; their Constitutional rights were taken away by our government. The government then asked those in concentration camps to volunteer into the service, and many did.

The rest is history, as they say. However, in my earlier post, I said the 442 earned seven presidential citations. Actually, it was eight.

From Wiki.
Quote:
442nd Infantry Regiment (United States)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia My note in green.

The 442nd Regimental Combat Team of the United States Army was a regimental size fighting unit composed almost entirely of American soldiers of Japanese ancestry who fought in World War II, despite the fact that many of their families were subject to internment (concetration camps). Beginning in 1944, the regiment fought primarily in Europe during World War II,[2] in particular Italy, southern France, and Germany. The 442nd is "the most decorated unit in U.S. military history."[3] It was awarded eight Presidential Unit Citations and twenty-one of its members were awarded the Medal of Honor for World War II.[4] Its motto was "Go for Broke".
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 10:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The government then asked those in concentration camps to volunteer into the service, and many did.


Sorry but like all American of that time period any "volunteering" being done was with the full knowledge that those who did not "volunteer" would be drafted.

An hundreds of Japanese Americans not only refused to "volunteer" but refused the draft and ended up in Prison due to that fact.

President Truman did Pardon them after the war however.

Footnote there being strong political reasons to show that the Japanese Americans was loyal and even superior US soldier it is kind of hard to judge how their units did compared to other US units of the time.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 10:39 pm
@BillRM,
Your ignorance goes deeper and deeper with every post. Many Japanese Americans were denied citizenship, their constitutional rights taken away, then thrown in prisons without being charged with any crime.

Being thrown into prison by our government was their mistake, not the Japanese Americans who lost their liberties, and refused to enlist in the army.

Quote:
Gordon Hirabayashi was another notable upstander who also appealed his case to the Supreme Court. After those with a Japanese nationality were forced to move to internment camps, Hirabayashi was disgusted by this and criticized the decision. Hirabayashi joined the Quaker-run American Friends Service who helped Japanese families whose fathers were sent away. Later, he turned himself into the FBI, was imprisoned for 90 days, and appealed his case to the Supreme Court who ruled against him at the time. About 40 years later, the case was reopened and the US realized what they did was wrong similar to Korematsu. The upstanders resisted the orders while in camps, some turned themselves in, and even appealed their cases to the Supreme Court.


From JAHistory.
Quote:
These protections are guaranteed in the 5th and 6th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America.
However, during 1942-46, some 77,000 American citizens of Japanese ancestry and 43,000 Japanese nationals, most of whom were permanent U.S. residents, were summarily deprived of liberty and property without criminal charges and without trial of any kind. Several persons were also violently deprived of life. All persons of Japanese ancestry on the West Coast were expelled from their homes and confined in inland detention camps. The sole basis for these actions was ancestry; citizenship, age, loyalty, and innocence of wrongdoing did not matter. Japanese Americans were the only group singled out for mass incarceration. German and Italian nationals, and American citizens of German and Italian ancestries were not imprisoned en masse even though the U.S. was at war with Germany and Italy.
This episode was one of the worst blows to constitutional liberties that the American people have ever sustained. Many Americans find it difficult to understand how such a massive injustice could have occurred in our democratic nation. This guide will attempt to explain how and why it happened, and what can be done to ameliorate the effects of that mistake. In
a 1945 article in the Yale Law Journal, Professor Eugene V. Rostow wrote: “Until the wrong is acknowledged and made right we shall have failed to meet the responsibility of a democratic society—the obligation of equal justice.”


Quote:
Had these upstanders not take any action, it may have taken the government even longer to realize what they did was wrong. The government was treating the Japanese just like how the Nazi’s treated the Jews. I am happy that the government wrote an apology and payed $20,000 to the victims. These upstanders did a lot of work to make the US realize their cruel actions.


Quote:
Internees were sent to an assembly center before being sent to one of ten internment camps. Family members were broken up and sent away to different camps. Additionally, those 17 years or older had to take a loyalty test and were asked two questions. The test questioned if they were willing to serve or volunteer for the army and if they remained loyal to the US and not work for Japan. Conditions were harsh in the internment camps. There was poor medical equipment, internees had to stay in fenced areas and deal with extreme temperatures depending on location. People had to wait in lines to get food, use the restroom, vaccinations, etc. Some passed away in the camps due to those factors in addition to the emotional stress they were facing. Many people resisted by simply refusing to follow orders but unfortunately, the guards would shoot those who resisted.


www.pbs.org/.../at_war_democracy_japanese...
Quote:
Veterans of the 442nd were denied service, even while in uniform.
BillRM
 
  2  
Sun 27 Jul, 2014 10:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Your ignorance goes deeper and deeper with every post. Many Japanese Americans were denied citizenship, their constitutional rights taken away, then thrown in prisons without being charged with any crime.


An that claim have what to do with the 300 or so Japaneses who was US citizens and who refused military service and ended up in prison like any other American of the time who refused the draft????????????????

I know you do enjoy blowing smoke but you are making yourself look like an dishonest fool here.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 08:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Dead is dead no matter what is used to kill. Is that a difficult concept for you?
When do you think the number of Palesitnian children killed by bombs and bullets will equalize gas extermination?

Do you really believe nakedness is equivalent to killing all those innocent Palestinian children? Do you know the difference between shame and dead?
Most would opt shame over dead. Trust me on this one!

In several cultures, nakedness is not even shameful. Forced nakedness is less shameful.


Not shame, but the degree of inhumanity that the country with the highest degree of culture in the 19th century can metamorphose into. So, the sticking point is that Israel has a little cartoon character on its shoulder, so to speak, whispering, "Never Again." Arabs do not have that haunting reminder.

Israel is haunted by its 20th century history of European Jewry. Arabs are not haunted by much.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  3  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 08:57 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Standard tactics, change the subject, talk about anything but what's happening in Gaza. Let's not allow ourselves to be diverted.



I didn't realize you had stripes on your shoulders? Head of the A2k constabulary?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:00 am
@Foofie,
No, a concerned human who believes all peoples should have freedom and equal rights. It's really a simple concept, once you understand its meaning.
Foofie
 
  3  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:07 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Your ignorance is endless! It shows that your bigotry knows no bounds.
The Japanese Americans who volunteered in the military service of the US during WWII were the most decorated battalion of any war the US has been involved in. They received seven presidential citations. And 21 of its members received the Medal of Honor.


The Asian identity in the U.S. is not Japanese-American, in the eyes of other Americans. It is Chinese, Korean, Filipino, and Vietnamese. I never even heard of Japanese-Americans, except in a text book. The only Japanese person I've seen on television was pitching for the Yankees.

Actually, Japanese don't even look Asian to me, having seen other Asian groups.

Some South American native Americans look more Asian to me than Japanese?

Most of us know Japanese-Americans are Americans. Enough already.
Foofie
 
  3  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No, a concerned human who believes all peoples should have freedom and equal rights. It's really a simple concept, once you understand its meaning.


"Should have" but don't have, since in most places, some people are more equal than others. Just human nature, based on evolution of the fittest/most avaricious. It is not Israel's job to promulgate the love of Jesus, in the Catholic tradition.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:18 am
@Foofie,
Excuse me! When people criticize Japanese Americans, I talk about Japanese Americans. I don't care what people think about Asians in general.

However, to offer one fact for your benefit, average Asian American income is the highest in this country.

We are definitely Asian. However, here's another fact; Japanese Americans now have families of many ethnicities including German, Italian, English, Irish, Dutch, Russian, Polynesian, other Asians, blacks, Hispanics, and others I'm sure.

Some still don't know about the history of this country about our government putting us into concentration camps, or about the 442. I meet many on my travels who didn't know. On my trip on the Rhine and Mosel last year, the Travel Director didn't hear any of this, and now she does, because I told her about the Lost Battalion in the Voges Mountains during WWII that the 442 saved at great cost, and we had the opportunity as an optional tour to visit there, so I did. She said she will share this story with people in her group from now on!!






0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
No, a concerned human who believes all peoples should have freedom and equal rights. It's really a simple concept, once you understand its meaning.


Except for Jews it would seems that do not even have a right to defend themselves from 2000 plus rockets with 1.2 millions pounds of explosives and counting being aim at their population centers.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:23 am
@BillRM,
The people whose property and freedoms have been taken away are the ones who have lost everything; and they fight back as little as it is possible. They've already lost everything. I'm sure if you were in the same situation watching your dignity taken away, and watch your family and friends killed by the Jews almost daily, you'll just sit by until they kill you.

BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 28 Jul, 2014 09:33 am
@cicerone imposter,
I hope like hell that over property rights issues I would not feel free to kill women and children.
 

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