10
   

Our Hearts Are Breaking

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 06:19 pm
@JTT,
Makes perfect sense to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization, hell bent on the elimination the Jewish State of Israel and driving the Jews from the region. Israel is an ally of the US. Ridding the Palestinian territories of Hamas would have been in the best interests of the US, Israel and ultimately the Palestinian people (although they still would have been horribly served by Abbas and Fatah.

Too bad they didn't pull it off, but there's still a plus side to their failure: despite useful idiots like Chomsky, Hamas has revealed that once they were democratically elected (I'm sure Fatah still disputes this) they had no intention of governing democratically.


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 06:35 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
USA terrorism makes perfect sense to you, Finn, surprise surprise. You've shown that you've always been comfortable with USA terrorism, USA slaughter of innocents, USA war crimes.

The USA has done this so often, millions have died and Finn is alright with it all. You and Oralloy are a team.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 08:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
For someone who claims to have studied this conflict at the graduate level, his explanation and assessment is risibly simplistic.

The problem isn't that one side wants the other side dead, as this guy asserts; it's that one side is denying the rights of the other side and oppressing the other side. Of course, the other side is fighting and will not cease fighting until they recoup their rights.

"If Israel laid down its arms and announced today, 'we will fight no more' there would be an immediate destruction of the state of Israel and mass murder of its Jewish population."

Talk about hyperbolic leaps of logic.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 09:48 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The problem isn't that one side wants the other side dead, as this guy asserts; it's that one side is denying the rights of the other side and oppressing the other side.

Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a fair and just peace based on 1967 borders. The Palestinians always prefer to murder the children of those who offer them peace.


InfraBlue wrote:
Of course, the other side is fighting and will not cease fighting until they recoup their rights.

Palestinians will never stop trying to murder innocent children.

However, Palestinians can be controlled in the same manner that poisonous snakes are controlled.


InfraBlue wrote:
"If Israel laid down its arms and announced today, 'we will fight no more' there would be an immediate destruction of the state of Israel and mass murder of its Jewish population."
Talk about hyperbolic leaps of logic.

No hyperbole. That is a fair description of what the Palestinians would do if they were given a chance.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 09:49 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Gaza (along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem) is occupied Palestinian territory under international law, determined by the vast majority of the world, as well as the highest court in the world, the UN’s International Court of Justice.

The occupation of Gaza ended when Ariel Sharon pulled out of the place.


JTT wrote:
Gaza cannot commit aggression against Israel, since Israel is in constant and continual commission of illegal aggression against Palestine by occupying it

Setting aside the fact that Israel is not occupying "Palestine" (whatever that is), there is nothing illegal about what Israel is doing.

Further, when Palestinians go around murdering innocent people, that is very much an act of aggression.


JTT wrote:
(illegally and sadistically blockading it

Blockades are lawful acts of war.


JTT wrote:
and frequently committing terrorism against its civilians,

The only terrorists here are the Muslims and Palestinians.


JTT wrote:
including by targeting them with chemical weapons provided by US taxpayers – see “Rain of Fire” by Human Rights Watch).

Israel has never used chemical weapons.


JTT wrote:
As documented by Amnesty Int’l, Human Rights Watch, and many others, Israel intentionally targets and murders civilians, including children, en masse.

Only Palestinians and Muslims do that.


JTT wrote:
Israel also kidnaps and tortures children,

Only Palestinians and Muslims do that.


JTT wrote:
Gaza did not initiate this current round of violence; Israel did:

Israel is not responsible for the fact that Palestinians and Muslims refuse to make peace.


JTT wrote:
On May 20th, the Israeli government murdered 2 unarmed Palestinian teens, one on video, and wounded a third.

Lawful self defense is hardly murder.


JTT wrote:
The firing of pathetic scrap metal rockets from impoverished Gaza, which have killed no one, were in fact launched in response to earlier Israeli bombings, killings, assassinations, and arrests of Palestinians, including children.
Since the year 2000, Israel has killed 1,500 Palestinian children, while Palestinians have killed 132 Israeli children. That means Israel has killed over 1,000% percent more Palestinian children than vice versa.

Please. Enough with the fake claims of non-existent dead children.

The dead children gambit is boring!


JTT wrote:
“. most of the wars in which Israel was involved were the result of deliberate Israeli aggressive design . None of these wars – with the possible exception of the 1948 War of independence – was what Israel refers to as Milhemet Ein Berah (war of necessity). They were all wars of choice . ” – Defending the Holy Land, pg. 35, (bold added)

Israel's wars are the result of self defense when other people attack them.


JTT wrote:
“I review a number of peace-related opportunities ranging from the Zionist-Hashemite collusion in 1947 through the collapse of the Oslo Process in 2000. In all those cases I find that Israeli decision makers – who had been willing to embark upon bold and daring military adventures – were extremely reluctant to make even the smallest concessions for peace .

The collapse of the talks in 2000 happened as Israel was offering the Palestinians their own state based on 1967 borders.


JTT wrote:
Israel has violated more UN resolutions than any other country.

Those resolutions that Israel supposedly violates, also require the Arabs to make peace with Israel.

And since Israel actually repeatedly offered to comply with those resolutions in exchange for that peace, the only people who are really violating those resolutions are the Arabs.


JTT wrote:
Noam Chomsky: “Hamas is regularly described as ‘Iranian-backed Hamas, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.’ One will be hard put to find something like ‘democratically elected Hamas, which has long been calling for a two-state settlement in accord with the international consensus’—blocked for over 30 years by the US and Israel. All true, but not a useful contribution to the Party Line, hence dispensable.”

Nonsense. Hamas has always opposed making peace.


JTT wrote:
In the history of all rocket and mortar fire into Israel, 26 people, total, have been killed.

That's 26 too many.


JTT wrote:
And remember, Palestine breaks ceasefires far less often than Israel, as documented above.

Nonsense.


JTT wrote:
This number of 26 is in contrast to the minimum number of 1,400 people who were murdered by Israel in a single one of its terrorist atrocities, the 2009 Gaza Massacre.

Self defense is hardly murder.

Terrorist atrocities are a Palestinian and Muslim thing. The Israelis do no such thing.

And while the "1400" figure is the result of fabrication, the fact that 26 people were killed indicates that Israel's defense was not vigorous enough. Israel should have hit the Palestinians hard enough to ensure that 0 people were killed.


JTT wrote:
Noting that in the current massacre, zero Israelis and over 100 Palestinians have thus far been killed,

The "100" figure will also be a fabrication.

However 0 people killed is the magic number. So long as Israel maintains zero deaths, all will be well.


JTT wrote:
and noting that Gaza is a concentration camp

Goofy.


JTT wrote:
The rhetoric and tactics of Hamas and other groups resisting Israeli occupation and colonization can be brutal (though far less so than Israel).

No such occupation. No such colonization.


JTT wrote:
these groups are resisting having their country stolen and their people dispossessed and annihilated.

Israel has repeatedly offered to let them have their own country based on 1967 borders.

The Palestinians always reject the offer and go on trying to kill innocent people.


JTT wrote:
having their land stolen and their people massacred, the same thing that Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

Israel has repeatedly offered to let them have their own country based on 1967 borders.

The Palestinians always reject the offer and go on trying to kill innocent people.


JTT wrote:
Palestinians have the right under international law to resist occupation, ethnic cleansing, colonization, aggression, and annexation.

However, what the Palestinians are actually violently resisting are fair and just peace offers.


JTT wrote:
if Israel doesn’t Like rockets, they should decolonize Palestine.

The rockets started when Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza.

Further unilateral pull outs will only make the rocketfire even more devastating.


JTT wrote:
The Palestinians have the right to use arms to resist an occupation .

The Palestinians are not resisting an occupation. The Palestinians are resisting fair and just peace offers.


JTT wrote:
In my opinion, a national Palestinian leadership committed to mobilizing nonviolent resistance can defeat the Israeli occupation if those of us living abroad lend support to it.”

Setting aside the fact that there is no occupation, if the Palestinians really wanted peace, they could just stop rejecting fair and just peace offers.


JTT wrote:
READ ON AT THE FOLLOWING. LOTS OF EXCELLENT LINKS.

Lots of insidious anti-Semitism is more like it.
usmankhalid665
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 01:57 am
@oralloy,
9/11 deaths gamebit is really boring. These are all fake, there is no reality.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 02:34 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Makes perfect sense to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization


So was the IRA, but that didn't stop America allowing Noraid to operate with impunity in the United States, or for many thousands of Americans to give money to support the same terrorist organisation.

We didn't get peace in Northern Ireland by insisting we only deal with moderate Republicans like the SDLP. If Israel wants peace (and clearly it doesn't) it will have to sit down with Hamas and work things out.
0 Replies
 
usmankhalid665
 
  3  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 12:57 pm
@oralloy,
You don't care because they (palestinian children) are not your children. Right?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 01:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Makes perfect sense to me. Hamas is a terrorist organization,


As regards you, Finn, your first sentence is an oxymoron. The USA is a terrorist organization. It is hell bent on forcing out governments it doesn't like the world over. That is the very definition of terrorism. That is why the USA couldn't come up with a legal definition that didn't capture the USA within the definition of terrorism because the USA has so long been at the terrorism game.

I could give you a long list that the USA has committed egregious acts of terrorism against but I know you would rather go on lying your ass off.

So be it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 06:54 pm
@usmankhalid665,
usmankhalid665 wrote:
9/11 deaths gamebit is really boring. These are all fake, there is no reality.

This illustrates why DroneStrikes are justified.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Jul, 2014 06:54 pm
@usmankhalid665,
usmankhalid665 wrote:
You don't care because they (palestinian children) are not your children. Right?

I don't care because I am not an anti-Semite who goes off attacking Jews whenever someone concocts an untrue false accusation against them.
usmankhalid665
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 04:29 am
@oralloy,
Muslim soldiers will revenge of every palestinian child death.
usmankhalid665
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 04:33 am
@oralloy,
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1jHT-8hpaPwgGHecRrTkdf4XdWMA72PqztmnJ3kHOabdooZha
Israel cruality in Gaza
usmankhalid665
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 04:34 am
@oralloy,
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6pH72vVkP5Z3pBi31Zv77jbUP7nFtWXLZPbVXWZ68bp2jNgJH
0 Replies
 
usmankhalid665
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 04:37 am
@oralloy,
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7g_QvHS8AwoGhOOgI_X7lKPz-QhstET1CN-NxIu94GePi1rTEDg
A voice of a palestinian child
0 Replies
 
usmankhalid665
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 04:38 am
@oralloy,
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKQYYzHutEDZTnDIVC1OUP-CgSxPL_FUCX2ar89qthK7JBHoxt
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 05:04 am
@usmankhalid665,
usmankhalid665 wrote:
Muslim soldiers will revenge of every palestinian child death.

Muslims are like poisonous snakes. It is possible to control them to minimize the damage they inflict on people.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 05:12 am
@usmankhalid665,
usmankhalid665 wrote:
Israel cruality in Gaza

Let me guess, more "dead children" fakery?

Sorry, still boring, and I've graphics turned back off again.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 05:30 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Israel is an ally of the US.


As a general rule, I usually do not respond to you because I don't find you credible. However, I simply must respond to your stating "Israel is an ally of the US."

Israel is a partner in crime of the US, representing US interests (oil) in the region, and a pain in the keister...an albatross around the US neck...a liability, whom the American taxpayer pay to the annual tune of 3 billion a year....PLUS. Israel has corrupted our congress with huge money contributions to both parties and doddering Senator McCain and his inept do-nothng-congressional-cronies are/were blaming Obama yesterday.

On 9/11 over 3,000 people, not all Americans, died in the Twin Towers, watching on TV people jumping from the highest floors trying to escape the flames. I thought my heart would break! When I think back on that terrible day, it's difficult to hold back the tears still. As a consequence of US sponsoring Israel, being its principal benefactor, the US has attracted so many enemies in the middle east that she is the extremists' prime target. I am not the only American who feel that Israel is not an ally in the true sense of the word, for if she were, the Zionist nation would not continue to cripple an already vulnerable people, the Palestinians, doing everything she can to own the whole shebang of Palestine (West Bank) and making sure the world know she CONTROLS the US by telling America when to jump, and the US asking how high!!!!

Have a good day and a good life.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2014 05:42 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Israel is an ally of the US.


it seems to me that being an ally of the US is just as dangerous as being an enemy

if allies like sadam hussein are anything to go by, israel should be very wary

of course america should also be wary, some of the allies **** them first, one thinks of pakistan hiding bin laden as long as they did
 

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