Can you liberals defend this???????!!!!!!!!!!!

that goes for all other nations too, of course. As well as for religions.
Calling a NATION barbaristic, dumb, nazistic or anything is evidence of serious brain problems.
Whatever that particular nation is....

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Acquiunk wrote:

We have sacrificed more than the lives of our soldiers in Iraq, we have sacrificed our good name.

now, that, unfortunately, is true

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MyOwnUser -- I believe that should read "not entirely true," but unfortunately with the media response in foreign countries, especially Arabic, this is what they perceive as the will of the people. It isn't always the out-of-control will of a Rumsfeld.

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yeah I admit that in parts of Arab World it's probably something like that. Not in all Arab World, there are some very modern and civilized countries in this part of world, like Oman, Kuwait or Qatar, but in many countries Americans probably are percepted as biggest enemies, including ordinary people.

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Re: BoGoWo

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

BoGoWo, that picture is soooo eerie with Bush's face imposted on the pictures of all those dead soldiers.

Do you have the site for the picture?

BBB

I don't know where the montage may be found, but as you appreciate it so much you will probably want to seek out similar renderings: Lincoln's face made up of the Civil War dead, Wilson's face made up of the WWI dead, FDR's face made up of the WWII dead, Truman's face made up of the Korea dead, and LBJ's face made up of the Vietnam dead. Each of these would be sooo much more erie as they would involve so many more dead, the photos will consist of so many more pictels.

Presumably, the intent of this constructed picture is to directly link George Bush to the deaths of these soliders, and, clearly, there is a direct link as there was between the aforementioned Presidents and their war dead.

Photographic techniques are amazing these days and I'm sure someone could even fashion a likeness of Bill Clinton from the faces of the 25 who died in Somalia.

Towards what end though?

What distinquishes George Bush from these other War Presidents?

Oh, I know: The fact that GWB ordered the invasion of Iraq to avenge the assassination attempt on Poppy. The hell with the (currently) 48% of moronic or vile Americans who believe that we were right to invade Iraq. The hell with those Americans who are in Iraq fighting the war and who believe their cause is a just one. after all, they are either easily deluded children or horrific torturers. Either way, their opinions can easily be dismissed.

I does indeed boggle the mind how so many Americans might not agree with you, CI and cavfancier. The question what mind is boggled?
Likely the same mind that has the telepathic powers to know with certainty the real reason why Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq. The mind that was able to somehow discern that the majority of Arabs had positive feelings towards the US prior to the Bush presidency, but who now hate us all simply because of the actions of this one man. The mind that characterizes the majority of the citizens of two countries we have liberated as "a few."

The mind that takes such umbrage at mysteryman's lumping together all of the minds of those with which he disagrees.

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Re: BoGoWo

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
BoGoWo, that picture is soooo eerie with Bush's face imposted on the pictures of all those dead soldiers.

Do you have the site for the picture?

BBB

I don't know where the montage may be found, but as you appreciate it so much you will probably want to seek out similar renderings: Lincoln's face made up of the Civil War dead, Wilson's face made up of the WWI dead, FDR's face made up of the WWII dead, Truman's face made up of the Korea dead, and LBJ's face made up of the Vietnam dead. Each of these would be sooo much more erie as they would involve so many more dead, the photos will consist of so many more pictels.

Presumably, the intent of this constructed picture is to directly link George Bush to the deaths of these soliders, and, clearly, there is a direct link as there was between the aforementioned Presidents and their war dead.

Photographic techniques are amazing these days and I'm sure someone could even fashion a likeness of Bill Clinton from the faces of the 25 who died in Somalia.

Towards what end though?

What distinquishes George Bush from these other War Presidents?

Oh, I know: The fact that GWB ordered the invasion of Iraq to avenge the assassination attempt on Poppy. The hell with the (currently) 48% of moronic or vile Americans who believe that we were right to invade Iraq. The hell with those Americans who are in Iraq fighting the war and who believe their cause is a just one. after all, they are either easily deluded children or horrific torturers. Either way, their opinions can easily be dismissed.

I does indeed boggle the mind how so many Americans might not agree with you, CI and cavfancier. The question what mind is boggled?
Likely the same mind that has the telepathic powers to know with certainty the real reason why Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq. The mind that was able to somehow discern that the majority of Arabs had positive feelings towards the US prior to the Bush presidency, but who now hate us all simply because of the actions of this one man. The mind that characterizes the majority of the citizens of two countries we have liberated as "a few."

The mind that takes such umbrage at mysteryman's lumping together all of the minds of those with which he disagrees.

Whoa there little dogie, let's break this down. First off, I am Canadian, so I have no clue what goes on inside the American mind. Whether or not I understand the figures is really of no significance.

Did the majority of Arabs have positive feelings towards the US before the war? I highly doubt it, but the current mess is aggravating the situation further. Even a tense peace is at least something like being forced to have dinner with family you dislike. It is certainly better than all out armed conflict.

While hailed by some on A2K as a fine online psychic, I am fairly certain that I have no real powers in that field, so no, I am not privy to the real reasons Bush decided to invade Iraq, but without speculation, no 'real' answers will be given, and that is not the kind of world I wish to live in.

As for your take on 'liberating' two countries, time will tell. As I just stated, I'm no psychic.

Regarding mysteryman, all that was needed was a better statement of intent in the original post, to encourage proper debate.

I have no issues with the soldiers who feel they are fighting a just war. They are doing their jobs admirably. The questions I have are simply about the current administration's choices regarding the order to invade. I see the plan as ill-conceived, and I think that they did not anticipate the kind of resistance they are receiving now, nor do I suspect that they anticipated the death toll.

As for the photo, whatever.

Let Bush have his war. The public will decide, one way or another, to vote him in or not. After all, it is a free country.

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Finn, GWB, like other presidents...campaigned for the job, desired and lusted for the job, and spent god knows how much money and did God knows how many backroom deals, and continues to do so, in order to have and keep the job. Everything he does is about maintaining the job.

Taking the heat for sending people over alive and shipping 'em home dead is part of the job. He can accept that part of it or get the hell out. I don't think he'll be missed.

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Finn, What is it that I wrote do you not understand? Exactly what are you disagreeing with?

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The bright shiny crusade that several posters on this thread signed up for has turned into a dark moras of moral ambiguity. They were lied to, manipulated, and their reflexive patriotism used. They are hurting bad and flailing about.

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Without ambiguity there can be no insight, lessons learned, or progress.

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They seem to be having a difficult time getting to insight.

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Maybe Jesus will help out, but I doubt it.

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Yes, perhaps Mel Gibson should personally go over there and screen "Passion" at a downtown Baghdad theater (that is, if there is a downtown Baghdad theater).

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Re: BoGoWo

cavfancier wrote:

Whoa there little dogie, let's break this down. First off, I am Canadian, so I have no clue what goes on inside the American mind. Whether or not I understand the figures is really of no significance.

I agree, and yet you felt compelled to salute and second CI's arrogant incredulity.

cavfancier wrote:

Did the majority of Arabs have positive feelings towards the US before the war? I highly doubt it, but the current mess is aggravating the situation further. Even a tense peace is at least something like being forced to have dinner with family you dislike. It is certainly better than all out armed conflict.

Reasonable minds can differ as to whether or not the action in Iraq is a battle in the War on Terror, and whether or not the constantly escalating terrorist attacks culminating in 9/11 represented a "tense peace," but reasonable minds should have great difficulty with the notion that our action in Iraq has turned the once adoring Arab world against us. It's good to see your "Here Here" was not intended to be all inclusive.

cavfancier wrote:

While hailed by some on A2K as a fine online psychic, I am fairly certain that I have no real powers in that field, so no, I am not privy to the real reasons Bush decided to invade Iraq, but without speculation, no 'real' answers will be given, and that is not the kind of world I wish to live in.

Speculation in the face of facts does no service to "real" answers. There are any number of people who "speculate" that Israel was behind 9/11. How is that advancing the search for truth? I'm not particularly fond of living in a world where wild speculation takes the place of facts in the minds of my fellow citizens' minds, but, like you, must play the hand I'm dealt.

cavfancier wrote:

As for your take on 'liberating' two countries, time will tell. As I just stated, I'm no psychic.

Fair enough although I would argue that both countries have been liberated. Whether or not their liberation amounts to something of lasting value does remain to be seen.

cavfancier wrote:

Regarding mysteryman, all that was needed was a better statement of intent in the original post, to encourage proper debate.

A point I too previously advanced, however much of the ire that was raised by the original post was due to the same sort of negative generalization that is implicit in the single question "When will America wake up?"

cavfancier wrote:

I have no issues with the soldiers who feel they are fighting a just war. They are doing their jobs admirably.

I certainly accept this as a sincere expression, but surely you must realize that the great majority of them fall into the 47% of Americans who are "asleep." You may have no issues with soldiers who feel they are fighting a just war, but it does seem that you have issues with American civilians who believe the soldiers are fighting a just war.

cavfancier wrote:

The questions I have are simply about the current administration's choices regarding the order to invade. I see the plan as ill-conceived, and I think that they did not anticipate the kind of resistance they are receiving now, nor do I suspect that they anticipated the death toll.

Again, fair enough, but perhaps you can appreciate why it is somewhat arrogant to find it amazing that so many people might disagree with you.

cavfancier wrote:

As for the photo, whatever.

Whatever indeed. Whatever is the purpose of such a photo but to draw a line of responsibility between the deaths of these soldiers and George Bush. This line of responsibility exists just as similar lines of responsibility exist between other presidents and the soldiers who died in "their" wars, and yet the seeming implication among so many on the left is that the line of responsibility drawn between these dead and this president has the taint of caprice or, worse, criminality. If that is the case, then I simply would like to know if they feel the same way about all American presidents who have held office during military actions, and if not how is GWB different from them. That I offered my sarcastic take on what their answer might be was not intended to answer for them.

cavfancier wrote:

Let Bush have his war. The public will decide, one way or another, to vote him in or not. After all, it is a free country.

It's not Bush's war, it's America's war, just as Vietnam, Korea, WWII et al were not the wars of the men in the Oval Office at that time. For better or for worse they have all been America's wars.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Finn, GWB, like other presidents...campaigned for the job, desired and lusted for the job, and spent god knows how much money and did God knows how many backroom deals, and continues to do so, in order to have and keep the job. Everything he does is about maintaining the job.

Taking the heat for sending people over alive and shipping 'em home dead is part of the job. He can accept that part of it or get the hell out. I don't think he'll be missed.

By now, I hope you understand that my point is not that it is unfair to hold Bush responsible for the deaths of these soldiers. If you don't, so be it.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Finn, What is it that I wrote do you not understand? Exactly what are you disagreeing with?

I understand all that you wrote. For what I disagree with, read my reply to cavfancier. No need to repeat it here.

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U.S. policy under fire
Also, many in the region assert this was the wrong time to launch a U.S.-

sponsored network in the Arab world.

"This is not the right time to have a station like this because most countries are against the U.S. because of Iraq and Israel. If they solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem, then people would accept a station like this," Abdel Salaam said.

"The actions are not coherent with the message. The message is very hypocritical. Bush is talking about democracy after he has colonized a country. What is he doing?" Mowfai, the magazine writer, said.

Although Amin said the network could survive and compete, he conceded that it was launched at a very difficult time "when people are mobilized against the U.S. because of the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and support of the state of Israel."

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http://web.naplesnews.com/03/03/naples/d923857a.htm

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finn

You've written some delightful prose here.

"The mind that takes such umbrage at mysteryman's lumping together all of the minds of those with which he disagrees."

That's very pretty.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Finn, GWB, like other presidents...campaigned for the job, desired and lusted for the job, and spent god knows how much money and did God knows how many backroom deals, and continues to do so, in order to have and keep the job. Everything he does is about maintaining the job.

Taking the heat for sending people over alive and shipping 'em home dead is part of the job. He can accept that part of it or get the hell out. I don't think he'll be missed.

By now, I hope you understand that my point is not that it is unfair to hold Bush responsible for the deaths of these soldiers. If you don't, so be it.

I was merely adding my 2 Cents

. No attack on you .

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Can you liberals defend this???????!!!!!!!!!!!

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