Whats going on in her mind?

So is everything you do dependent on how she behaves and what she wants?

What about what you want? Are you not allowed to go after what you want, respectfully? (and you can go after what you want, respectfully)

Are you not allowed to express, in actions, what you desire? Are you being true to who you are (by not doing so), or are you just pandering to what you think she wants...which you can't even work out?

How are you going to be any better off by playing the childish games you are playing...compared to if you went after what you wanted? The obvious answer by the way is - you can't possibly be any worse of than you are now...while you may get somewhere by actually doing what men do - hunt (using 'chase' is a passive verb that for some reason gives passive people the wrong idea). And maybe you'll learn a thing or two about your desires being a worthwhile, natural, and genuine part of you,

Your desires aren't evil, they aren't bad, and they don't need to be tucked away...only to be brought out at the beck & call of a woman....it doesn't, and should never, work that way. Be yourself.

I think i understand, But could you put it in more simple terms?

So long as you are respectful, you do not ever need to feel one iota of shame for wanting a woman...even if they reject your desire.

In other words, if you want a woman, it is completely okay to (respectfully) express desire for her (through your actions / body language / eyes)...it is completely okay to chase her.

If she say 'I only want friendship' and you want more...still persist...because it's not just about respecting her, but respecting yourself (your desires are genetically a part of you...so you should never feel shame for them, but acknowledge and embrace them as part of you, as a man). Sometimes being true to yourself is more important than 'just friendship'. If she chooses to end whatever it is you have, then you respect that too...but you give it your best shot right up until that point.

In everything - stay true to who you are.

If a man pursues a woman and she clearly and explicitly says she does not wish to have a relationship with him, and he persists, then surely he could be said to be harassing her?



That sounds like you are saying that it is OK for a man in such a situation to say to himself, "My desire for her is more important than her lack of desire for me".

Contrex, while I'm not surprised at your response, I do find it frustrating. Did you notice how I emphasised the word 'respectfully' in my posts (and there is both self respect, and respect for others)?

There are ways to persist that don't amount to harassment. Can a look in your eye (and I'm not talking about leering / oggling) while you are meeting her in the eye really be harassment?

Respectful body language can still articulate articulate self assurance and manliness (without being arrogant), just as it can desire.

The short answer would be 'Yes'.

Seriously, have you not seen a plethora of instances where this is the case (the woman says no, the man still chases, and ends up with her)? So...saying it must be harassment is already proven false on a multitude of 'case studies'. It just has to be done in the right way.

What it is also saying is that it is more important to, respectfully:
- be genuine
- respect who you are,
- respect your feelings and desires
- and be true to who you are (some redundancy - to make a point)

than it is to:

- pretend to be someone that you are not.
- be dishonest
- be fake
- disrespect a part of yourself

It follows a rule of 51/49.

Her feelings are not more important than yours, and your feelings aren't more important than hers.

You find this a good rule, but don't carry it as far as 'what happens when our feelings are in conflict?' When feelings conflict - if you give way to her feelings - you have just broken that rule, saying hers are more important than yours.

How then is it possible to meet a rule you find good?

The only way to then meet both, and the very best way, is to be true to yourself / genuine etc...while being respectful of her feelings, without letting them over ride yours...at 51%:49%.

What gives you that slight right of way?
- Each person is responsible for themselves
- each time you don't respect yourself...if you do it enough times in the same scenario, your mind comes to believe that you don't deserve respect, which then has numerous negative repercussions (all because you're being fake, disrespecting yourself)
- If you disprect yourself...why should others respect you? (and many won't)

In other words...being true to yourself, while being as considerate & respectful of others as possible, is a necessity for a healthy mind.

And as can be seen*...it also never has to amount to harassment of any other person. It simply has to be done in the right way.

*by all the cases where it hasn't amounted to harassment.

I'm glad you explained your take on that. I had Contrex's reaction too and was going to find the thread again and reply. If I say I am not interested, fussing after me, even respectfully, is anywhere from stupid to creepy, a very fast and slick road from one to the other.
If I change my mind because you are actually likable, you'll hear about it, and it won't be after more efforts on the person's part. I don't care how much you own and deserve your desire.

Not that I can't sympathize, but let people be.

A girl pal of mine who was in despair at the loss of her lover's attention went to his house in the middle of the night and lipsticked all his first story windows with hearts and pleadings.
This did not bring him back.
She never did marry, as it happened, not that that's a bad thing, but maybe related.

One doesn't own people no matter how much the craving.

I have seen multiple plethoras of cases (I used to work in the criminal justice system) where a man would not take 'no' for an answer and the man would end up in court on charges ranging from harassment, via assault, to rape and murder. A woman has the right to say 'no', and be believed.

The kernel of the matter. Male control.

So obvious, yet apparently so hard to comprehend.

I get it that there are ambivalent women, luvin' the bad boy, that's a big subject, and not what I am talking about, but part of the confusion.

A good friend of mine went out with a guy for a few weeks, and found his controlling ways creepy. She told him it was over, his response was to tie her up and put her in the trunk of his car, take her to Birmingham and keep her prisoner in his aunt's basement. He explained that it was all because he loved her, it hurt him to do this, but she needed to understand that she was his woman. He also "respected" her, he said. She got loose. He is in jail.

Yeah, I believe you, though it's not exactly usual. Usually they just beat you up. (I don't know, I've never been in that exact predicament.)

On the other hand, I know plenty of people, perhaps a good percentage of us, who have pined our hearts out over someone, but heard the no, the first step to moving on.

Hi Osso, there’s nothing wrong with that…as I pointed out below


I couldn’t agree more.


Hello Contrex, this is so true.

And nor was that what I was talking about…I have said several times…respect is integral to this approach, for both yourself, and the other person.

That you cannot imagine a respectful way to be true to both yourself, and the other person (when feelings/drives conflict)...does not make what I have said wrong. Why you can't imagine a way to respect yourself and the other person...is something you will have to figure out, should you ever want to.

And not a single way you mentioned was either respectful, or in the right way. You included examples of the extreme opposite of what I was talking about.

The way to respect the person you are inflamed with who is not interested is to go away.

that is horrible advice

the poor guy is going end up being hated instead just not desired

Should she wish you to go away, then absolutely.

Is that not utterly obvious by now?

As a comment, not regarding your response - this advice I gave does modify in a work situation...where neither can go away. He wasn't asking about a work situation, so I didn't include that bit.

Have you even read his post? (or mine, even though I understand how it can be misunderstood)

And as a secondary comment, there are many, many men, who ended up marrying women who said no the first time. ...and as a percentage, very few women fall for men who don't desire them, and none end up marrying men who don't desire them.

Females do it to. Or so I have read.

You can go away in a work situation. That is irrelevant.

I've been reading your dreadful advice on relationships for years.

You don't seem to have learned anything about how relationships grow or work successfully.

You give consistently bad advice - or at least bad advice for people trying to develop relationships in Europe or North America.