Whats going on in her mind?

Not sure how you can go away if you work together.

You are entitled to your opinion. My advice:


- will not undermine their self esteem
- will not tell them they should be fake
- will not shame a person for being human (we experience desires as part of being human, and need not feel shame for being born this way)

- will tell them to be true to themselves / genuine / self respecting
- will tell them to be respectful of others
- will tell them to be considerate of others

- will not be inconsistent
- will not consider one person or gender more important than the other

You will find everything of that in my post here...and every other post I give. (of course sometimes I slip, and that too is part of being human)

Easy. Just shut up.

I had a fracas with a female colleague, thus out of this topic, but it lasted a year. That's the woman I had to go cry in the bathroom about, such rage. I don't think I ever understood it, being triangulated re the boss, who was fine with me. Years after he fired her and she got a better job, we are pals. Some using in that, but on the other hand, I'm the one who recommended her for the job back in the beginning, and we both live through all that. She's actually bright and good.

Just shut up still works.

Ah, of course. That's possible in most cases.

Thanks for having me rolling on the floor as somehow I do not off hand think that putting her in a trunk would be all that respectful means of pursuing her.

Lord anti-male elements in this society is trying to made normal courtship behaviors between men and women into criminal conduct.

I love looking at 1950s romance comedies an thinking of the poor male lead being locked up before he can win the lady hands.

There should be the ability for a man to pursue a lady short of locking her in a basement without breaking anti male and anti courtship laws.

I don't mean to be cruel Patrick but you're a bit clueless, which is OK depending upon your age. If you're 35, it's not, but if you are between 13 and 16 as I suspect, it is. That you realize it's kind of your fault for not catching on the first time means you're OK.

I'm afraid you did blow it the first time around. Her acting "shy" is a darn good indication that she was interested in you and was waiting for you to take the next step. Her asking her friend why you stopped talking to her pretty much cinches that she was, and then you blew it again by not taking the hint from her friend.

If your friend actually asked her if she like you and she actually said no, the chances of her playing hard to get are very slim. However, you didn't ask her and she didn't say no to you so if you approach her to see if there's still a chance for a relationship you won't be stalking her.

Just be cool about it (and I don't mean aloof or acting the stud) and approach her on it with respect. If she turns you down, that's it; game over. Leave it and her alone unless and until she gives you a very clear sign in the future.

Chances are she has moved on. Sounds like she gave you your chance and you messed it up. Not to overly worry though, it happens all the time with young people. You guys are hardly masters of communication and its tough to get up the guts and face rejection so there are all of these go-betweens and alternative methods of communication. When they work it's great because you didn't have to put your neck out there, but it's always best to communicate directly. There's less chance of confusion.

Here's a tip. The next time a girl acts in a way that confuses you, don't assume you know the answer. Ask another girl what she thinks about it. They won't always be right, but they know the ways girls thinks and act better than guys do.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with some persistence in terms of establishing a relationship with a girl...as long as your not a creep about it. Persistence doesn't mean stalking or even pestering. When the girl makes it pretty clear that she's not interested, back off. "Making it clear" doesn't have to be a firm "No, I don't want to go out with you, leave me alone."

If she says anything about your being friends, that's almost always a "No," and you should consider it to be. If she sort of suggests she would, but, more than once, has something to do on the day you suggest, that's a "No." If she tells you more than once that she has to think about it and will get back to you, that's a "No." (Chance are if she says that once it's a "No," but it's worth a second try)

At what I presume to be your age, most girls care a lot more about being nice than guys do (that's probably the case at any age, but that's another discussion) and a lot don't want to hurt a guy's feelings, so you have to look for more than a loud "No." She shouldn't have to say "Leave me alone or I'm going to call the police" for you to get the message.

Good luck.

Nice post Finn

I'm not arguing, I need my breakfast slurpie to stabilizes and answer.

I might hate your answer but I don't know that yet.

I'm sure I won't be able to sleep tonight worrying about your verdict in the morning.

Well, I hope you can sleep. I'm not clear we disagree, have to reread.

Lol you crack me up, I actually agree with you, although a few of his points are good lol

As a point of interest, because I often get caught talking about principles rather than specifics...humour is the most common tool used in what I was talking about. Flirting is another (and of course, must go both ways), as being light hearted around the person, as is being passionate about life (if you are indeed passionate), etc. There is no need in any of that to invade another persons space.

But what I started with was principles...that happen to also help build self esteem...I guess the reaction was entirely foreseeable.

...it's just that the western world, while claiming to value self esteem...does just so much that undermines peoples self esteem (while feeding their egos, sense of entitlement, sense of 'rights', greed etc...none of which have to do with self esteem).

...the western world is too used to people trouncing all over them, treating them with disrespect (comes with fed egos, sense of entitlement etc)...so when something comes along where a person says 'when your feelings are in conflict, be assertive about yours while being respectful' (and you'll see this in what I said)

...they react in fear because of what they are used to - disrespectful people invading their space...and they are bought in to the 'others always come first' mantra - which my advice differs from. The 'others come first' mantra undermines self esteem - for it says you are worth less than others (I disagree, we are equal), and is used to shame people who don't "put others first" ...yet, ironically, the people with the highest self esteem <who put time into growing who they are, and stand up for who they are> usually have the most time for others, the most genuine compassion, the most patience, etc.


....and again - the use of humour, light-heartedness, self assurance and respect - fits perfectly into what I've been talking about.