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China Has an Invalid Government

Forums: News, China, Government, Freedom
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Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 05:38 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
The protests in Hong Kong happened with very little fall out. In America a TV crew was deliberately targeted by the police.

That's what really happened.

So under China there was one case in which the government told the people to disperse and even sent in goons to beat them, but didn't actually succeed in making the protesters stop. This is under a government which grants no right to free speech or peaceful protest and regularly disperses and arrests peaceful protesters. In America, you mention one case in which I'll trust you that a local police department did the wrong thing, in a country which has the right to free speech and assembly in its highest law and in which peaceful protests go off again and again without a hitch.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 05:57 pm
@izzythepush,
OEM seems to have left the building.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 05:57 pm
@Brandon9000,
You really don't know your own country's history. Don't you even remember Kent State?

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0504.html
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 05:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Was there.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 09:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You really don't know your own country's history. Don't you even remember Kent State?

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0504.html

You utterly failed to grasp my point. We are a country in which the law entitles us to free assembly and speech. Once in awhile, a police department, or police officer, or a soldier does the wrong thing, but thousands and thousands of times, people protest peacefully and the government doesn't interfere. China, on the other hand, is a country (including now Hong Kong) in which there is no right to speech, assembly, or peaceful protest, and in which protesters are generally told to disperse and are often arrested, and such protesters certainly have no recourse to their court system.

It is ridiculous compare the very occasional incident here, with the utter lack of freedom there.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 09:36 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon. Don't you ever get tired of this same old **** of yours?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 09:45 pm
@Brandon9000,
Your so-called 'point' has failed from the four dead students at Kent State.

Anyone with any brains knows about the freedom of speech in Communist China; it doesn't exist. We all remember the tragedy at Tiananmen Square where 10,000 were arrested and untold hundreds killed (if not thousands).

The Kent State Massacre is not much different than the June 4 Massacre in China. The US Constitution guarantees to peacefully demonstrate freely.
Quote:
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution specifically allows peaceful demonstrations and the freedom of assembly as part of a measure to facilitate the redress of such grievances. "Amendment I: Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."[16]


China has no such constitutional rights.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 10:03 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Brandon is 1OO% right.
If he were not, then there 'd have been no point
in resisting the slavery of the commies or of the nazis.





David
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 10:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
<whoosh>
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 10:46 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Brandon. Don't you ever get tired of this same old **** of yours?

In other words, you've run out of actual arguments.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 10:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Your so-called 'point' has failed from the four dead students at Kent State.

Anyone with any brains knows about the freedom of speech in Communist China; it doesn't exist...

My point was a contrast between two truths. (1) Americans have the legal right to peacefully assemble to petition for redress of grievances and (2) people under the Chinese government don't.

You said that my point failed. What exactly failed? You admit that there's no freedom in China, which was the first part of my point. You must, then, disagree with the second part of my point, that Americans do have such rights. I never said that this right of Americans wasn't violated occasionally, I said that we have it in law and most of the time in fact. When we don't have it, it's because some local person or group does something wrong, not because we live in a dictatorship. So, which part of my point was false?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 11:07 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
My point was a contrast between two truths. (1) Americans have the legal right to peacefully assemble to petition for redress of grievances and (2) people under the Chinese government don't.
And such makes a government "invalid"?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 11:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

Brandon9000 wrote:
My point was a contrast between two truths. (1) Americans have the legal right to peacefully assemble to petition for redress of grievances and (2) people under the Chinese government don't.
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And such makes a government "invalid"?
Yes; illegitimate,
as if the Hell's Angels Motorcycle Club starts shoving u around.

The point is that it has no authority to do so. See ?





David
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 11:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Yes, every government cab only be elected like in the USA and under the very same laws and constitution to be called 'legit'.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 11:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Yes, every government cab only be elected like in the USA
and under the very same laws and constitution to be called 'legit'.
Cabs are privately owned in America.
We hail them in the streets; I suppose a choice of cab can be deemed an election.
We have some government owned busses. Presumably, the East German government owned the cabs there.

I think a coolie pulls each cab in China. Maybe the government owns every cab in Red China. I dunno.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2014 11:38 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
It was a typo:
http://i60.tinypic.com/f02khw.jpg
"cab" should read "can".
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 12:40 am
@Brandon9000,
You pretend it didn't happen. Looking at the world with rose tinted spectacles is so much easier than dealing with reality.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
It was a typo:
http://i60.tinypic.com/f02khw.jpg
"cab" should read "can".
Understood.

Walter, HOW did u insert those red colored arrows in your display ??????????
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Yes, every government cab only be elected like in the USA and under the very same laws and constitution to be called 'legit'.

My take is that any government not overthrown by its citizens is legit. This includes Saddam and Gaddafi. I maintain that both wars were in violation of civilized behaviour.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2014 01:33 am
@hawkeye10,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Yes, every government cab only be elected like in the USA and under the very same laws and constitution to be called 'legit'.
hawkeye10 wrote:
My take is that any government not overthrown by its citizens is legit.
Into home-made lexicografy now, Hawkeye?
Whence springs its legitimacy, as defined by Hawkeye??


hawkeye10 wrote:
This includes Saddam and Gaddafi.
I maintain that both wars were in violation of civilized behaviour.
How is "civilized" being defined??
 

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